05. JUNE-DECEMBER 1985: LOCAL FAME

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In June 1985 the band embarked on their first tour outside of Los Angeles, an up north West Coast tour, on what they would later refer to as the "Hell Tour". The idea for this tour was originally Duff's who knew the region well after having toured there with his former bands [see earlier chapter]:









As discussed previously, it could be that Duff wanted to do the tour because he knew it would be a great bonding experience for the new band. The idea of a tour outside of California also proved to be a testing ground for the band, resulting in Tracii and Rob withdrawing from the band before the tour kicked off [see previous chapter].



Up until this point the band had still not decided upon having Steven join as a full-time member to replace Rob. L.A. Weekly would write a story about Nicky Beat possibly joining the band as their drummer [L.A. Weekly, June 14, 1985], and Tracii would much later mention that Beat had indeed auditioned for the band [Riki Rachtman's Cathouse Hollywood Podcast, July 29, 2019]. But Steven's eagerness to join the Seattle tour on short notice - they asked him to join the band permanently the day before departure - allegedly helped seal the deal [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 210].





The original plan was that the band would use two cars, one of which would be Raz Cue's, but due to sickness Cue didn't join the trip and they had to squeeze everyone into one car:



As stated above, the one car they used was Danny Birall's, and it towed a rented van from U-Haul to carry the equipment. But the band didn't get far before it broke down, as prophesized by Rob in an earlier chapter.










Bakersfield/Fresno is about two hours drive from Los Angeles. From there to Seattle is another 15 hours drive, or 1,000 miles as Duff correctly is quoted above. Through hitch-hiking slowly northwards, and stealing vegetables from fields around them, they eventually made it to Seattle.



The first and possibly only show of the tour took place at the Rock Theatre at the Gorilla Gardens (or possibly Gorilla Room) in Pioneer Square in Seattle [The Seattle Times, April 17, 2005]], on June 8.









Tomie O'Neill (soundman; RKCNDY club co-owner/comanager) and Duff would later reminisce about the show:








Duff says in his biography that the band was not paid for the show at the Gorilla Gardens because they didn't drew a crowd (only 15 people came [Circus Magazine, November 1991]); but according to other interviews the band was paid $50 instead of the promised $200 or $250 [Los Angeles Times, July 6, 1986; Circus Magazine, November 1991; The Seattle Times, April 17, 2005] and there were 20 in the audience [The Seattle Times, April 17, 2005].



Duff would repeat the story about them stealing money in an interview in 2005 [The Seattle Times, April 17, 2005].

According to author Stephen Davies, the other clubs heard about the disastrous show at the Gorilla Gardens and cancelled the remaining shows [A&E Biography, November 29, 2007].



The band then returned back to LA:





As stated above, the band only played one show at the tour yet Axl, in an interview in June 1987, would curiously claim they played "a few shows" [Unknown UK Source, June 1987]. This would further be corroborated by Cue who in 2018 would state he had heard they played three shows:





Duff would later look back at the tour as a formative moment, an early obstacle that tested the relationship between the band members. And although from a touring and financial perspective it had been a failure with only one poor show played, it did solidify the lineup:

After returning to Los Angeles, the band played one show at the Stardust Ballroom (June 28), on the bottom of the bill with The Unforgiven, Joneses, and London.





On this gig they played Mama Kin for the first time.



Duff would later look back at their early shows and how they worked to get bigger audiences:



This show at Stardust Ballroom on June 28, 1985, was likely their tenth show.

After having rented a rehearsal space at Nickey Beat's Love Palace [see earlier chapter], some time in the latter parts of the summer of 1985, the band could afford renting a studio at the Gardner Studios 24/7.

The Gardner Studio was located in a dead-end alley off Gardner Street, behind a public elementary school and behind Sunset Grill. The alley contained half a dozen doors to cinder-blocked self-storage spaces, and the band rented one of these for four hundred dollars a month.

According to Dizzy Reed - whose band The Wild was already renting an adjacent studio when Guns N' Roses moved into their studio - Guns N' Roses only stayed at the Gardner Studios for 3-4 months [Sirius XM Trunk Nation, May 7, 2018]. The band would eventually leave (or flee) Gardner Studios in October 1985 and move in with Vicky Hamilton [see later chapter for the reasons for this]. This would imply that the band used the Gardner Studio from the summer of 1985 till October 1985.

According to Raz Cue, they moved into the Gardner Studios when they could afford to the rent a studio 24/7:



Cue would also claim he was the first who was able to lockout rent a studio at Gardners Studios, for LA Guns:



The band turned their garage into their regular rehearsal studio, and often used it for parties. There was no toilet or a/c or heat, but the band could play there 24/7. The gardner Studio also functioned as a home for band members and they built a ramshackle loft for sleeping.

In this place many of the songs from Appetite for Destruction and GNR: Lies, as well as a few from Use Your Illusion I and II, were written [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 96].














The studio was cramped and Slash would in his biography from 2007, and in subsequent interviews, mention him and Izzy having sex with the same girl resulting in Izzy cumming on Slash's leg:






This was also the place where Axl would realize they had the right songs:



Axl would mention this event again around the same time in an interview with Steve Harris, and also add that Izzy now finally understood what Axl had been "talking about for the last three years" [Interview with Steve Harris, December 1987]. When Harris mentioned this to Steven and Duff a year later, they would mock Axl [Interview with Steve Harris, December 1988].



Near the Gardner place there was a Mexican restaurant, El Compadre, the band used to go to:



Slash would likely refer to this restaurant in 2005:



Despite hanging out in a rehearsal space, Axl rarely rehearsed with the band. According to Steven, the band "could count on one hand the number of rehearsals Axl had been to". As mentioned above, this was due to him not having a PA system back then:



In February 1986, the band fled the Gardner studio when Axl had a rape charge against him, and moved in with Vicky in her apartment [more on this in later chapters].

In July 1988, Izzy would reminisce about the Gardner studio:





Another Hollywood band called The Wild, rehearsed nearby the Gardner place. The keyboardist in The Wild was Dizzy Reed, the future keyboardist of Guns N' Roses, and the band got to know him and the rest of The Wild early on [Raz' biography, page 225]. For more information about Dizzy and his bands, see later chapter.

As the new lineup played more gigs, more rehearsal, lived together and song writing together, they started to gel more and more. The mix between Duff's punk rock sensibilities, Izzy's low-key rhythm and feel, Slash's loud bluesy and fast leads, and Steven's idiosyncratic groovy drums, turned out to be a potent combination. And on top of that was Axl's intense, strong vocals that were filled with emotions.

And although not every band member always appreciated everyone else in the band, especially since compromises had to be made, the new lineup started to gain more and more popularity in the L.A. music scene.











The band would quickly realize the special chemistry they had:





And Marc Canter would explain why it worked in Guns N' Roses compared to earlier bands like Hollywood Rose, Road Crew and LA Guns:

In July 1985 the band played a gig at Madame Wong's East (July 4). The band went on late and there were very few people there [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].








During their last song, Heartbreak Hotel, the sound man cut the PA system since they were overtime. The band pulled together and finished the song without the PA system [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

Then they played another show at the Troubadour (July 20). At this gig they played 'Welcome to the Jungle' for the first time [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

The actor Nicolas Cage would remember having attended this show and witnessing the band play Welcome to the Jungle for the first time:



After the July 20 gig the band was asked to play a frat party at UCLA with "very few hours notice" [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. So this show was at the UCLA on July 21.






Mick Cripps, guitarist for LA Guns would be at this show and comment on Axl's choice of attire:



Cripps also claims Axl played an early version of November Rain at the UCLA show:



The band then played a show at the Seance (July 26). The show started at 2:30 am and Slash was wasted, resulting in Axl admonishing Slash from stage by dedicated 'Back Off Bitch' to him and later asking Marc Canter to have a talk about Slash about not being drunk for shows [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

Jack Lue, a photographer who took many pictures of the ban din their club days, would talk about the allure of the band:

In August 1985 the band recorded five songs in Mystic Studios for the classic lineup's first demo. This is likely the demo the band paid $300 to record [RIP Magazine, May 1987]. Black Randy from the Metro Squad paid up for the recording:



Marc Canter also helped by paying $250 to finish the mixing [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007; Marc Canter, personal communication, January 21, 2020].

The demo contained the following songs:

- Welcome to the Jungle
- Anything Goes
- Back Off Bitch
- Think About You [Marc Canter, personal communication, January 21, 2020]
- Heartbreak Hotel [this song ended up not being mixed [Marc Canter, personal communication, January 22, 2020]]

This demo is probably the one the band gave a copy of during the Country Club gig in October 1985, but then asked to have back to give to a record company executive who was in attendance [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 225].

It is also probably the one that was handed to friends and which resulted in Joseph Brooks playing it on the local radio station KROQ:



And being asked if he could remember that in 2006:





In 2018 copies of the Mystic Studios cassette tape would be included in the deluxe version of the Appetite for Destruction: Locked N' Loaded box set.

In August 1985, the band first played at the Stardust Ballroom (August 30). Both David Lee Roth and Bret Michaels (from Poison) would come and see this show. Poison had played earlier in the evening and covered the song "American Band", so Guns N' Roses did the same [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].





Again the PA system was turned off while the band was playing their last song of the night, "Heartbreak Hotel" [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

Then the band played the Roxy Theatre (August 31) on a bill with Mary Poppinz and St. Valentine.







Because of this the band decided not to play over their scheduled time, so as to not infuriate the club owner [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

Breaking through among all the other bands in Hollywood in the early 80's required a lot of hard work and Slash seemed to have put in a lot of effort:






In March 1993, Slash would look back at the work they had done:





Slash designed most of the band's artwork [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007] and would design the band's first t-shirt [Circus Magazine, May 1988].





Slash would also claim that he worked as the band's manager in periods when they didn't have one:





All the band would hang up posters of upcoming gigs, and sometime get into fights over this. Max Asher, drummer of Warrant, would reminisce about hanging their posters over Guns N' Roses':




When they flyered they often went together as a group, making a party out of it and getting into fights:



Looking back at the "flyer wars":





Another thing the band did was to set up a mailing list with the help of someone called Carrie and Bobbie. The first issue was released in December 1985 [Newsletter #1, December 1985].

Slash and Marc Canter became friends already back in 1976, in fifth grade, when they met at 3rd Street Elementary School after Slash tried to steal his bike [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007; Let There Be Rock, August 29, 2013].

Discussing how it happened:







Canter and Slash started hanging out together, including riding BMX bikes, but then lost touch after Slash changed schools:




Canter would immediately start supporting Slash's music endeavors including documenting gigs:




And this eventually led to Canter meeting the rest of the guys that would make Guns N' Roses:








Describing the friendship:












As described above, Marc helped the band out financially, by loaning them money to pay for tickets (rock clubs often required bands to pay for a certain amount of tickets ("Pay-to-Play") which the band then had to re-sell) as well as for stamps they needed to send out the band's newsletters [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 90].

The band would acknowledge the importance of Marc in the liner notes of 'Appetite for Destruction': "Marc Canter - without you?".







In 2012 and 2013, Canter would talk about how the band had repaid him for his efforts and help:





Talking about Axl playing 'November Rain' at Canter's wedding in 1989:





In addition to helping the band out in various ways as described above, Canter would also meticulously document the band's first gigs:



Talking about his recordings:




Canter would say he recorded 30 Guns N' Roses shows using his equipment:





Marc's family owns Canter's Deli in Hollywood, one of the most established delis in Los Angeles and a famous landmark. Then author would highly recommend any readers to visit the deli when in Hollywood. Not only is part of GN'R history but also a historical deli with great food.







The band members would talk about the restaurant:









Marc Canter explaining the story behind the picture above:




Steven and Duff would talk about the importance of the band to have a guy like Marc around:









Fortunately, for every fan of Guns N' Roses and anyone interested in the early history of one of rock's greatest bands, Marc decided to put together a book about Guns N' Roses early period, "Reckless Road: Guns N' Roses and the Making of Appetite for Destruction", which was published in 2008. It featured lots of information and an impressive collection of quite frankly awesome photos. It is amazing. So is Canter's Restaurant, it is part of GN'R history and even if you don't care for that, it is a great place to eat in Hollywood.

More information about Reckless Road is found in a later chapter.






Marc Canter and Slash would remain friends and in 2008 Slash would discuss why they had managed that despite all the chaos of Slash's life:

On September 9 the band again played at the Troubadour where they debuted Rocket Queen.





Then they played at the LA Street Scene Festival on September 28 which was an enormous free outdoor festival sponsored by the city of Los Angeles [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. For this show Slash had changed his guitar from his B. C. Richmond to a Les Paul that he had purchased at Guitars R Us [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].












Marc Canter being asked about his favorite GN'R show:



Being asked what his first "hooooooly shit we're huge" moment was while in GN'R:



Rob Gardner would come to the festival and see his old band:



GN'R played twice at LA Street Scene, in 1985 and 1986. It was in 1985 the spitting, which Steven talks about, occurred.

In the beginning of 1986, a friend of Izzy's called Robert John started to photograph the band. Robert used to race motorcycles, but an accident cut his future career short, and hence through the urgings of friend Chris Holmes (of W.A.S.P) he pursued his hobby photography as a possible alternative [Rock Scene, October 1989]. John befriended Izzy before Guns N' Roses was formed, and would be introduced to the rest of the band through Izzy.







Slash was wary of John at first:



John particularly formed a strong bond with Axl, and they could talk for hours [Rock Scene, October 1989].








John had already photographed W.A.S.P and the band liked his pictures [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 104]. "Robert made the guys look like rock gods," as Raz would phrase it [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 229].





in 2000, John talked about his relationship with the band and especially Slash:




And about the photos he has taken:

The first gig in October 1985 took place at the club The Stone in San Francisco on October 5. At this show the band would open up for their good friends in Jetboy.





Either on their way to San Francisco, or back from San Francisco, the band started writing Paradise City:




Jetboy was a band based in San Francisco that often came to Los Angeles. Billy Rowe, guitar in Jetboy, would later discuss the band's friendship with Guns N' Roses:



When the band drove back to Los Angeles after the gig they would start working on Paradise City.

Their next gig was another show at the Troubadour on October 10 were they sat in for LA Guns who had cancelled the same afternoon [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. On this show they debuted 'Paradise City'.







Then they played at the Country Club on October 18, for which they were paid $200 [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. This show was advertised as an "Ultra Glam Metal Show" [L.A. Weekly, October 18, 1985].





Raz Cue would come to the show at the Country Club, after he had been estranged from the band for a few months after getting in an argument with Axl:



Cue is wrong, though, the debuted Paradise City on the show before this one, at The Troubadour on October 10.

Billy Rowe from Jetboy would talk about playing gigs with Guns N' Roses, including the October 18 show at the Country Club:



The next show was at Radio City on October 31, where the band again got in a quarrel with club personnel when they tried to play more songs after the sound guy had cut off their sound [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. The club tried paying them with a video they had recorded of the band's performance, but Slash insisted on getting paid in cash [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

The band used various places to both rehearse, record and live - often the very same place. Some of them had their own apartments, at times, others would just drift around and sleep wherever they could.









Living on the streets would inspire the lyrics for 'Paradise City':



Izzy was staying with his girlfriend, Desi Craft:



And another girl friend of the band was Michelle Young, who would later be immortalized in the song 'My Michelle'. She would talk about the role she had in supporting the band, and their habits:



And although the band was starting to grow som local popularity, the band was still living on very little means:








Joseph Brooks:



Colleen Combs:



At some point, likely before being signed to Geffen, a management company put them up in a house in Hollywood Hills. Steven would mention this place but wrongly claim this was the place them got from Geffen after being signed:



Slash would also mention the place in the Hills:

The next planned show was on November 14, 1985 at Lipstick Fixx, an ambulating music concept that on this date was supposed to take place at the Galaxy Stage. This show is known from a photograph shared on social media by Desi Benjamin and from an article in L.A. Weekly where it is mentioned that the show was shut down by the vice police, likely before GN'R started playing [L.A. Weekly, November 22, 1985].





The band then returned to the Troubadour at November 22 for their first sold-out concert [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007].

The first concrete label interest likely came from Greenworld Records and Distribution and their subdivision Restless. Jenny Price from Greenworld would recall:



According to Duff, this interest from Greenworld/Restless came by the end of 1985, and to prepare for their meeting, Izzy bought a book about the music industry. Duff confirms that Restless only offered them a 'pressing and distribution deal', plus about $30,000 towards recording costs. As Price said, the band decided to not sign but instead wait for better opportunities [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 102].

Although the band did not want to go with Green World, Jenny Price still had a role to play when she later urged Kim Fowley to working with Guns N' Roses [see later chapter].

The only known Guns N' Roses show in December 1985 took place at Music Machine on December 20.





At the soundcheck to this last gig they allegedly came up with 'Nightrain' which they would play during the show:









The band would later lament how hard it was for outsiders (none of the band members were originally from Los Angeles, although Slash and Steven had lived there since they were kids) to gain popularity in the insular LA music scene:



And Duff would talk about how they were trying to figure out how the fit into the scene:

Duff would mention how Marc Canter helped them overcome the system by loaning them money to pay for shows:



For more on Canter and how he helped the band, see separate chapter.

In his biography, Steven would argue that Guns N' Roses would never go along with the pay-to-play policies [Steven's biography, "My Appetite for Destruction", 2010, page 92].

Later on Dizzy would comment on the pay-to-play system and the effect it had on the music scene of Hollywood:

Part of the band's image was their names. Slash refused to reveal his real name in interviews in the first years, referring to his real name as being "irrelevant" [Guns N' Roses Interview Disc, June 1988].



"Izzy" likely originated from the first part of his surname "Isbell" and was a nickname that started already back and in junior high. In the early days of Hollywood Rose he went by "Izzy Bell" [Johnny Kreis Website, 2002]. Izzy then played around with variations to the last name of his pseudonym (calling himself "Izzy Stranded" for a while), before settling on "Stradlin'" and later "Stradlin".



According to Raz Cue, Izzy changed from "Stranded" to "Stradlin" around when GN'R started playing shows in 1985 [GN'R Central, March 2018].

Just before signing to Geffen, Axl started the process of legally changing his name from Bill Bailey to W Axl Rose. He had been calling himself Rose since finding out about his biological father when 17, and added the Axl after having played in the band AXL, and now made it official [Kerrang! March 1989].

In the start Axl would introduce Steven as "Indigo Buds" but later change to "Popcorn":

Slash knew he was going to be a rocker already at the age of 14, and dressed correspondingly:



Michelle Young would describe Axl when he had just come to Los Angeles:



Already from the start the band had a conscious relationship to the importance of image and branding. Izzy had clear ideas about how Hollywood Rose would look and appear [see previous chapter] and it is likely he was also conscious about Guns N' Roses image. This consciousness about their image can be revealed in an early 1986 interview where the band was asked what importance image is to GN'R. Izzy would start by saying, "Very little" but Axl and Slash would then disagree and explain:








In the beginning, the band was often mixed up with the glam bands that frequented the Los Angeles clubs [Concert Shots, May 1986] and the band members would themselves experience with make-up and teased hair at some of the early shows.





Following the establish trends definitely helped with the opposite sex:



Axl sported chaps with a G-string for some of the first shows in LA Guns and Guns N' Roses, and Rob Gardner would tell how it came to happen:







And Duff would later jokingly confirm they did this to score with girls:



In hindsight, Duff felt almost embarrassed by their looks in this period:









Axl would explain their dress style:









Vicky Hamilton would explain how Axl got his snakeskin belt:







In 2017, Slash would talk about the glam scene in the 80s:



In an article about the glam scene in Hollywood from 1986, Slash would comment on their image:



Joseph Brooks, DJ and owner of Vinyl Fetish, would describe Izzy at the time:



In a later interview, Izzy would expand upon how they had been conscious about their stage-attire:



So it is clear the band was deliberate in their image, realizing its importance for success as musicians on the Hollywood music scene in the mid-1980s. Axl would explain how he hadn't understood this when he first came to Hollywood:



Later, Alan Niven would claim Duff didn't like Axl's early glam look:





In 1987, as the band started to become popular and they cemented on their own looks more, the band would then start trying to fight being pigeonholed as a glam band:




Paul Elliott, writing for Sounds magazine would attend the March 16, 1987, show at The Whisky, and would much later describe what he saw:



In 2007, Slash would talk about their image back in the beginning:



And he would be asked if the Simpson's Otto character was based on him:



Marc Canter would discuss the evolution of their image:



And Duff would talk about how they image hadn't been contrived:



Nikki Sixx would discuss the evolution of their image:



In 2017, Duff would comment on how the band always seemed somewhat orchestrated at group pictures typically with a bottle of Jack Daniels visible:



And talking about how being "real" was important to them, in contrast to some of their contemporaries (with Poison likely being one of the bands Duff didn't mention):



And argue that their image became an "anti-image":









Richard Black, singer of Shark Island in the mid-80s, would claim Axl meticulously copied his stage mannerisms:



Marc Canter would later comment on this:








Robert John would admit Axl was inspired by Black and even considered somehow crediting him:

The main girls that hung around with the band in the early days were Desi Craft (Izzy's girlfriend and partner in crime), Adriana Smith (to be featured on Rocket Queen), Barbie Won Greif (to whom Rocket Queen was written), Bambi Conway, Lisa Abbate (later to marry Dizzy Reed), Pamela Jackson, Julianna Sedbrook (to be featured in the music video for Welcome to the Jungle), Adriana Durgan, and Pamela Manning. It is possible that some of these names refer to the same person.





Smith would later discuss how she initially got in contact with the guys in Guns N' Roses:




Talking about having sex with Axl when she was dating Steven, and how Slash was kind of in the picture too:



Bambi Conway:



Adriana Smith:




Barbie Von Greif:



The strippers would also be part of the band's live shows:




Desi Craft:



Pamela Jackson:



Pamela Manning:





In 2008, Adriana Smith would be trying to reconnect with Axl, even trying through a song she wrote, "Come Find Me", that she released with her band:



Later, she would also claim Axl had invited her to come live with him and his then wife, Erin Everly, to teach her how to to have sex: