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Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

Registering is free and easy.


2013.03.04/11 - Dropping the Needle podcast - Interview with Alan Niven

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Post by Blackstar Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:12 am

In episode 43, March 4, 2013, of the Dropping The Needle podcast. In this episode Michael Brandvold and Mitch Lafon return to speak with former Guns N' Roses manager Alan Niven. This time it is ALL Guns N' Roses. Over one hour spent talking about the birth on Guns N' Roses right up to just when the band is about to break big. Keith Richards speaking with Slash about his leaving GNR. Who is the heart of the soul of GNR. His reaction to Slash trying out for Poison. Why, who and how they released and distributed Live Like a Suicide. The fake controversy of the album cover. The fake controversy the first time GNR went to England. And, the relationship with Geffen Records as things started to grow for the band.

In episode 44, March 11, 2013, of the Dropping The Needle podcast. In this episode Michael Brandvold and Mitch Lafon return to speak with former Guns N' Roses manager Alan Niven. Alan takes us inside the contract renegotiation with Geffen Records and so much more.

Transcript of March 4, 2013, episode:

Mitch Lafon: Alan Niven claims John Kalodner candied up their asses. Find out who on this episode of Dropping The Needle.

Voice-over: You're listening to Dropping The Needle, the podcasts where all music from all genres is discussed, new releases, classic albums rediscovered ,music signed and unsigned, no ass-kissing, just two guys talking about music. Here are your hosts Michael Brandvold from Michael Brandvold Marketing and Mitch Lafon.

Michael Brandvold: Everybody, welcome back to another episode of Dropping The Needle, the podcast that's been described as if Beavis and Butthead ever had a...

ML: I'm Beavis.

Michael Brandvold: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Dropping The Needle, the podcast that's been described as if Beavis and Butthead ever had their own podcast, this would be it.  I'm one of your co-hosts, Michael Brandvold from and as always I am joined by that world-renowned illustrious superstar rock journalist, in his own mind, Mitch Lafon. You do admit-

ML: That's right! And I'm doing well. Doing so well.

MB: So we have got part two of Alan Niven.

ML: Yes.

MB: We we had him on.... I don't know, about a month ago where he talked about Great White. He was gonna just be a guest and talk about everything but we quickly realized we couldn't cover everything in his career in a 45 minute episode so we stuck to Great White, he said he'd come back and talk GN'R with us so this is the Guns N' Roses episode and Alan has promised to talk about everything basically. I'm really looking forward to sitting down and picking his brain and getting the stories of the formation of the band and how management started and the birth of Guns N' Roses.

ML: Yeah, well, also the creation of Guns N' Roses is that there's a lot of sort of behind the scenes manipulation going on that has been sort of rumored over the years and and I'm looking forward to asking him about that quite frankly.

MB: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm always intrigued by the behind the scenes business of music so-

ML: Yeah, because what fans see and what actually goes on it are two very completely different things. I mean, it really is all the smoke and mirrors, I mean whether you like U2 or Bruce Springsteen or KISS there's always something going on in the back everybody fan doesn't know of.

MB: Yeah, I've always assumed that everything that happens was planned to happen, it wasn't a freak chance that this great thing happened or this interesting controversy happened. Always assume everything happened because it was planned to happen.

ML: That's why people in marketing firms get the big bucks because there's a lot of marketing plans involved in an album release.

MB: Better marketing plans are the ones that happen and you sit back and think it was just a spur-of-the-moment viral street uprising when the reality was it was planned by some corporation and they really pulled the wool over your eyes.

ML: Yeah, yeah, listen, you know, it goes back to that old saying: control the medium, control the message. And that's what a lot of these record companies do and news gathering places, they all control this and you think, "Wow! Look at this great dirty rock-and-roll band!" Well guess what, somebody said in a boardroom somewhere, "You need to be a dirty rock'n'roll band," "Here's how we're gonna make it dirty-"

MB: "And we're gonna spend a million dollars to make you dirty."

ML: Right, well that's exactly it, you know, and they-

MB: Go buy some new wardrobe to make them look dirty.

ML: So I'm hoping, I'm hoping with Alan we'll get him to unveil some of that because I know he likes it talk honestly and frankly so this is gonna be great. We'll call him up.

MB: Hopefully we'll find out some of the stories around the the creation and the birth of Guns N' Roses. Anyway, so let's get started on our chat with Alan today.


ML: So we're we're back with Alan Niven who gave the world Great White, took him a few years to get that going, but he gave us Guns N' Roses, a band that put out three or four albums under his reign but yet has been in the public eye for 30 years now about... it never ends, greatest thing alive, right Alan?

Alan Niven: Greatest thing alive? But in terms of something being alive, I know that Slash is playing in Nottingham tonight and he's being very kind and being sociable with our boy Chris Buck there, they're hanging out together as we speak.

MB: So you are still on good terms with Slash then?

AN: I love him. I think he's a wonderful person. Fame of that kind it's an extraordinary thing to take on, suffer, deal with, and joy, whatever, and there's no warning of what you're gonna have to deal with. There's a line in a Joe Walsh song about people changing and Joe Walsh staying the same and that's very much kind of the experience you go, that peoples' behavior patterns around you changes as no sorority or attention intensifies but I think Slash has dealt with being Slash with remarkable grace. I think he's done it with style and I think he's a really, really good person, really centered and you can't say that for everybody who's been through that experience.

MB: How about the rest of the band members? Are you in contact with any of the other guys?

AN: Izzy came out out here to Arizona and visited once not so long ago. He's like the Flying Dutchman, you know, occasionally he'll emerge out of the mists of Nova and you'll go, "Oh! it's great to see you, good to see-" and then he'll disappear again and you're not quite sure if he really does exist or he's really a mythology of himself.

MB: Then Duff?

AN: Duff... the last time I actually saw Duff was when The Project was being put together which became Velvet Revolver and Duff and Slash very kindly invited me to be involved with that but for a number of reasons I thought it was a bad idea, not least of which I thought we were placing an extremely high bar of expectation in every aspect to convene everybody except Axl and I didn't think that was appropriate. And  to be perfectly honest, at the time there were one or two things that I wanted to do myself and I didn't have the sense or drive and focus that they would have required. I was also a little apprehensive about Izzy's commitment which I thought would be essential because to me Izzy is the... he's the heart of the soul of Guns N' Roses.

MB: Really? So why is that? I mean, I think a lot of people, just general fans, just fans would think the heart and soul is either Slash or Axl.

AN: I could give you a... I've just woken up from a nap so I can give you a really low sugar ridiculous analogy on that if you like. You know, they might be the big two big boobies on the front but Izzy was the heart beating in the chest.

ML: There you go.

AN: Now obviously both Slash and Axl are frontman per se but Izzy was the one who for me embodied the attitude, who is the most consistent and best writer, he had a wonderful sense of rhythm as far as his rhythm playing guitarists concerned, there was a sense of rock-and-roll syncopation in his expression that was perfect, the very first time I saw GN'R it was actually Izzy and Duff on their side of the stage who intrigued me more than anybody else, they just were beautifully centered and just had the sense of magnetism and I'm trying to avoid using word 'cool' but it was just the essence of cool from those two.

ML: You know, if we're speaking about the beginning, can we start there? Before Slash joins Guns N' Roses, he tries out for Poison. Has he ever talked to you about that try-out?


AN: Mitch, do you want me talk about all your girlfriend's [?]

MB: Yes, we want to hear about all the girlfriends.

ML: We do! But let's talk about Slash playing Talk Dirty To Me, I mean, come on, that's got to be great. I mean, has he ever mentioned anything to you about... I mean, he must have, he must have said something.

AN: Certainly not... often between gentlemen there is a sense of discretion. You're not gonna bring up all those relationships that are obviously, and plainly obviously, wrong.


AN: It's like being invited to be the best man at the wedding and you're standing there and all that's happening is that you're running through your head every terrible story you've heard about the bride, you know-

ML: That's true.

AN: [?]

ML: But when you first get involved with Guns N' Roses is it the lineup that we got to know as, you know, the Appetite for Destruction lineup or were you there when Tracii Guns was there?

AN: No, I got involved in the summer of '86.

ML: Okay.

AN: So the lineup was the lineup that everybody associates and sees as Guns N' Roses and you know I'll be... I'll express my opinion, I think Axl fronts at this point the most lucrative cover band in the world and that's not to say that, you know, I don't think Ron Thal is a great player and a really cool guy but it's not Guns N' Roses. Sorry.

ML: But a lot of bands change members also, but well-

AN: Yes, yes, no, I mean... you know Keith Richards took Slash out for dinner one night and told him that he really needed to think through his relationship with Axl and that the last thing that he should do is leave Axl. And basically, his pitch was, "You should love Guns N' Roses more and respect what it means to the fans to have this frontline that everybody has connected to and associates with," you know. And obviously Slash looked at Keith and said, "You have no idea," I mean Keith turned around, you know, and basically said, "You know, I dislike Jagger as much as you dislike Axl but I love the Rolling Stones more." Slash still said, "You have no idea." So... what was the question again? You lost me there.

ML: The question was, were you involved at the time when Tracii was involved. But we should explore the Axl and Slash relationship eventually but-

MB: Yeah, but back to the beginning, I want to say at the beginning- I would love to start with how you became involved with Guns N' Roses? Because as I understand it, you vehemently were like, "No, I don't want to work with these guys," a couple times?

AN: Yeah, it... you know, it's pretty well-known history but I was basically asked three times by Tom Zutaut, on three separate occasions, if I'd talk to the band. The first time he had just signed them and at that point I didn't want to get involved in a cattle call of management. I had no particular [?] for that. Besides which, it had taken me a year and a half to get Great White back onto a label and get that project moving as it should be and I didn't... having been through the process of being signed and then dropped I definitely valued the fact that the band were resigned and the last thing I was going to do was scatter my attention and energies, so that would be a problem that I really had to keep on at to make sure that went as it should. The second time Zoots came he was obviously having a problem getting somebody to take the band seriously and the one or two people he had been able to get to take the band seriously were a little scared off by them. Tim Collins comes to mind, who was Aerosmith's management. By that time, I'd done a little bit of research into the band and the very last thing I was going to do with my life's energies was hook them on to that kind of chaotic, disastrous, self-destructive, arrogant, ridiculous, out-of-control idiocy, so I said, "Thank you very much for considering me again and thank you." And Zutaut came back and he said, "Look, I'm in a real mess." I was aware of the fact that Rosenblatt was, who is president of Geffen, was thinking of dropping the band and Tom basically said, "Look, this might be the end of my career, I really need help," and I said, "Well on that basis, you know, yeah I'll go and talk to them, not gonna make any promises, and see if we can connect and see if we can get anything done."

ML: Let me ask you quickly about that, though, you know bands come and go from labels all the time and it doesn't mean it's the end of anybody's career, why was he particularly concerned about this? Because he had spent a lot of money on them? Because he needed a hit?

AN: No, it was high-profile. It was a high-profile signing for him. They had already gone through approximately $75,000 in cash advances, they didn't have any releasable masters recorded at that point, the band's reputation for being.... being a rock and roll band, in my eyes, or less than career orientated-

MB: Less than professional.

AN: They weren't Boston.

ML: Let me ask you about that. If they don't have any masters, they don't have anything that's recorded that's worth releasing, why does a label throws... I mean there's a lot of fans out there that don't understand this process, why give them 75 thousand? I mean, if you don't think they're worth it, why give it to them?

AN: Well obviously they did things that were worth it in the first...

ML: Okay.

AN: You know, from the get-go. What they found was that they weren't very easy to deal with, they weren't very easy to organize and there were... I'm pretty sure when you when you've got Eddie Rosenblatt sitting in his office and somebody comes in and says, "We want to sign this band," and they talk about it, discuss it and so on and so forth and he rubber-stamped signing and then now once they're signed he's living with them, it's a totally different experience. Now, now he's getting to deal with it, you know, at least second hand to the third hand [?].

MB: Were there at this time when Tom Zutaut was coming back to you for the third time, were they being managed by Rod Stewart's management company at that time?

AN: Yes, they were and they were desperate to get out. They had rented a house for them up in the hills and that's where I went basically to have my first meeting with the band. And it was what under normal circumstances would be a pretty decent house.

ML: Had you heard any music at this point or were you just going to meet these guys?

AN: No, no, I'd seen... by the time I went to have a meeting with them I'd always been to a couple of shows, I had music, you know.

ML: And how were you reacting to the music? I mean, did you think this was phenomenal or this needed a whole lot of tweaking or this, "Well, it's okay, it'll pass"?

AN: I thought it was really rough-edged, especially for the time period. I had a great deal of skepticism as to how radio would deal with it. I thought that if we could get organized and establish some degree of professionalism to the point where we could actually tour we had a really good shot of having a really good and worthwhile underground rock and roll band. The demos that I heard at that point indicated to me that Slash was a really, really promising player.

MB: What was the very first demo you heard from them?

AN: There were several tracks on there, things like Jumpin' Jack Flash, Move to the City, Mama Kin, off the top of my head.

ML: Yeah, we have to talk about the Live Like A Suicide album at some point, or should we just go with it now? Do you know that story, Michael?

MB: Oh yeah, but, you know, I'm sure many of our listeners don't.

AN: I thought we were just getting to the point where I went to my first meeting-

MB: Yeah, don't jump ahead Mitch!

AN: -and I get off my motorbike and the first thing I see is a smashed toilet outside the front door. Front door opens and this rather well-known stripper comes out the front door and there I'm getting my first impression of GN'R.

MB: And it only got better!

AN: Apparently so.

MB: So after that first meeting, did it take any more arm-twisting to get you on board or did you finally just say, "You know what? Alright I'll do this for you Tom. I see there's something here"?  When you said, "Yes," were you still doing it more as a favor to Tom or did you finally say, "You know what, there's something I could do with this band"?

AN: No, I couldn't just do it for Tom, there had to be some sort of engagement of personality and, you know, for example at that very first band meeting I went to, only two members of the band turned up. One of which nodded out at the table, that was Izzy, he nodded out at the table which just left me with Slash. And, you know, Slash then took me to meet his snake and I'm pathological fear of snakes, you know. And when you're dealing with characters like that it becomes a little bit engaging, entertaining. Axl was always aloof and not always gracious. Duff affected a punk intimidation, he exuded a sense of punk integrity but was a really, really soft and wonderful guy. I couldn't figure out Steven Adler in the band, you know, because he was this shaggy hair metal drummer who was just like a puppy and how he fitted with the personalities was a conundrum. But it was a very interesting group.

MB: So after that first meeting you said, "Yes, I'll take these guys on"?

AN: Yeah, I mean, the process was a little bit longer-

MB: A little longer, but that's essentially what came out of it?

AN: Yeah, I like a challenge too and a partner I had at the time when I played him the demos expressed the opinion that I could go down into the San Fernando Valley, pick any house, it's got a garage on with kids inside it, doing garage band, and in his estimation in all likelihood they'd be better than this band. And I thought, "Really now?" That's an interesting polarizing attitude. We'll see.

ML: But musically back then they were a little sort of loosey-goosey, I mean, you had to mold them once you got them to the studio, no?

AN: No, my biggest responsibility of all was to let them be themselves and keep know, you're dealing with Geffen, you're dealing with the likes of John Kalodner and, you know, John Kalodner to me is somebody who has taken Aerosmith and just candied up their asses as best he could to make them a super market-safe as possible and sell our assets out.

ML: And he did the same with Great White later on, around 92 or 95 or something like that.

AN: Yeah, he was trying to stick it to me and prove he could do something without me but we know where that went. But bear in mind that I, you know, in the 70s I was at Virgin and I well remember the Sex Pistols coming onto the label and, you know, late '76, early '77. Edgy rock and roll. I mean, you know, you need somebody to be carrying that torch at some point all the time. Did I think that GN'R would be a standard bearer for the edge? Possibly but not in the extraordinary way and to the dimensions that they did. If anybody ever tells you that they knew that Appetite was going to be the seller it was, they're a liar or certifiable. You know, the fact that that records sold that many records, no one saw that coming.

MB: So you're on board as manager, what's the next step with the band in relationship to Geffen? Then what happens? You know, because me I love the... I'm not so much into the TMZ 'Who was sleeping with who' stories, I'm really intrigued by the behind the business stuff. So, you know, what was going on in the record label now that you came on board?

AN: Well the first most important thing was to get people to turn up for rehearsal and actually start working on pre-production for the record. I mean, I can remember a couple of early meetings where it was a less than brilliant conversation with Axl because he either didn't turn up or turned up really late, you know, what's new? You know everybody asks, "Did Axl get worse?" No, Axl was always Axl.

MB: I liked that, "Did he get worse? No."

AN: He was always Axl. The only thing that money and fame did was amplifying, just amplified all his personality traits and his behavior. So that was the first thing on my agenda, was to make sure that there was some regularity in getting into it si are working through

the songs making sure the songs was were

you know as best they were going to be

and getting a fix on or on a on a

recording day did you have a producer

yet was Mike link on board uh well I

mean [ __ ] it's 20 years ago um 30

almost yeah I know mama says you know

don't cast negative opinions if you the

first thing two of the first things I

had to do when getting on board was

actually housekeeping and the first

thing I had to do was get the band away

from Pasha studios and Spencer proffer

and Spencer did brilliantly with right

but in my estimation

the suits was not thinking clearly here

and putting Spencer with with G&R I

didn't think that was going to be a good

relationship zooks had also promised

Jian our CAA as an agency and I had to

deal with that and pull that back a bit

I believe I'm still not allowed in the

CEA a building but you know whatever so

no we didn't and in terms of looking for

someone and again part of the

relationship is you know his suits and I

had had a friendship for a long time but

this is the first time we actually work

together on something so we had to get

ourselves in sync together and once we

did we both clearly had a comprehension

that whoever was going to produce this

record was going to have to have the

patience of Joe and would preferably be

really good with guitars and would also

understand the instruction of no we

don't want this built and sounding like

everybody else at the moment you know we

want somebody who can really capture

what this band is live so how did Paul

Stanley come to be considered that was

just before my time thank God

but that said that that was either Paul

going to zoots or dudes going to Paul

but anyway clean Mike link came up and

he just seen with fit bill well it's but

his personality was not overbearing I

mean he's not a Roy Thomas Baker type

personality right yeah Roy Thomas Baker

is totally overbearing and divide and

rule whereas Klink was really patient

pull it together

let me work flash I'll get it down rough

and rule and he did a brilliant job

he he got burnt out when it came to

mixed time does he command you know

working with axe and flash and everybody

that would burn you out after a while I

can imagine now what do you think

resonated with with the fans when they

heard appetite I mean the things sold

what 15 to 18 million which is not bad

for a debut record what was a special

quality in the songs that made people

just fall in love with it are you're

probably better at articulating that

than I am you know you're both experts

in the field and you listen to countless

amounts of music and you'll probably far

better equipped to articulate that than

I am yeah actually I actually hated it

the first time I heard it it took me I

think the third or fourth listen to

finally understand after my best friend

at the time sold I'd lost my mind my

marbles well I I'm guessing that it you

know the the way it took them to grow it

did take time for people to absorb it it

wasn't an overnight success well no it

was an overnight success it was an

overnight success that took two years

right you know because in terms of my

own personal involvement in that

relationship it was it was basically two

years from when I first started talking

to them to when this thing took off now

you know Michael was talking about the

marketing and the business side and I'm

interested in that because you asked me

well let's stay with the music for a

moment I mean okay it's kind of

redundant and self-evident after 30

years but one there's an energy -

there's an integrity to the approach

it's any ghost musicians on there huh

any ghost musicians on the album or was

it the band all the band no [ __ ] no okay

Wisconsin roses dude okay you know

you've got you've got an incredible

energy you've got a very straightforward

and raw approach

you have an absolutely unique sounding

frontman I don't know how you describe

him I mean you know I've heard some

people describe him as Ethel Merman

Merman on helium but once he hear him

once you never forget him

you've got who has become maybe the most

recognizable guitar icon on the planet

you had a very very solid and competent

bass player and Duff was a former

drummer and has got some good bass chops

and he had a little drummer who had an

incredible sense of the beauty about his

playing that the whole thing was based

on you know Matt saw and bless his heart

is a good drummer technically but he to

me he's got you know heavy hands and

he's two-dimensional Steven is not the

world's greatest technical drummer by

any stretch of imagination but nobody's

been able to replicate the energy and

the feel that he put into those tracks

which were part of his enthusiasm and

his excitement of playing that material

no one matches that feel it's his so you

put those elements together you know not

hard to understand why I did quite well

you know for me not not to really make

it simplistic but it was also counter to

what was going on musically it wasn't

slick polished pretty boy tear metal you

know it wasn't that it was all of a

sudden wow this sounds like a [ __ ]

rock band sounds dirt and and and that

was that was refreshing at the time

because I think people were starting to

get burned out but that was refreshing

by the sweet child of mine video the

welcome to my welcome to the jungle

video was the big well look at my hair

but I was amazed let me let me up do it

hold on there it was all up like that I

mean they were trying to make it hair

metal on the first video but see I

would counter that that first video did

not yes they had hair but he didn't look

like a hair metal band no on that one I

was about to say that she need to get

Mike just down and look at jungle or

vice versa Axl's hair in the early days

I mean every every time there was a you

know say a troop gig or or a roxy gig an

Axl came in and bouffant at his hair

Duff would walk in and fix him with a

cold and beady stare and go nice hair

did you know didn't change from jungle

the rest of the band didn't you know

from jungle oh and you know there's what

it is and thank God you know something

got done about Axl's hair and his

approach and he fitted in with the rest

of the band and I think them I think

we're weird slightly going off the road

here is in is in the choice of words of

saying that they were a counterculture

that they were contrary I don't think

that they work on that contrary I think

what they were was more elemental good

word that's good they were more

elemental and in terms of their visual

representation and presentation and dude

all you got to do is put the [ __ ]

hairspray down and the lipstick down and

you start looking like a real person you

know right well and I think that's

that's that's what it was to me and and

again I'm nuts yes they had hair but to

me the definition of hair metal is just

not having hair it's everything else

they did it's the lipstick it's it's the

pretty outfits it's everything they did

made and that's what guns and rosin to

me as a fan when I saw that happening

like these guys just are different right

that came again that came at sweet child

the first video with the title purple

leather pants and the big hair I mean

there was a certain glam look to it but

but I do want to talk

out the marketing of the band or there

are three things that you did at the

beginning that work that were brilliant

and an important first was you know you

created fake controversy with the album

cover let's let's start with the the

first album cover of appetite you had

that sort of suggested rape scene on it

which you knew was was gonna get press

right so so tell me a little bit how you

manipulate the media to get that

attention well you start off with the

image itself right and I got a phone

call from axel one day saying that he

thought he had found something that

would be good and I went over to his

apartment and he had been down to a

place called the soap factory on Melrose

and he had his postcard and I took one

look at it and I went that's [ __ ]

perfect and he looked at me and said I

was joking I think no it's he wasn't two

minds about it you know bless him axel

can triple and double and quadruple

think himself on his dumper double

thinking the image the image was

incredible and from a manipulative point

of view one thing that was very obvious

to me is it could easily and probably

would be totally misread and everybody

and of course we're in America here and

I'm not American I'm English so I tend

to laugh at certain Pury incessant false

appearances in the American psyche and

entertainment world and what I clearly

saw in this image was Karma about to

descend on entertainment entertainment

technology for be exploitive especially

of the female form it was really clear

you know Robert Williams was saying this

is what Hollywood is and this is what

Hollywood does to women right

and here comes karma but I thought that

was dead-on when that's also where the

name of the album came from because the

piece of artwork was called Appetite for

Destruction and it was very obvious that

we were going to have either false or

genuine outrage over it and this was

around all the PMRC hysteria going

around yeah absolutely which wasn't me

which had been going on for a while

anyway but it was very clear that we

would have run into problems with it and

so it was decided that we'd do 30,000

units of data work for the album cover

and thirty four thirty thousand and one

we shifted over to printing what became

cover after there and we did all the

artwork and we did all the printing and

before the record was even released we

knew at 30,000 we were gonna flip and we

figured that was about where it would

happen and you know turnout we were

fairly on right so the album comes out

with the sort of rape scene on it and

then the media explodes and everybody

says you're horrible and they call it

for censorship and in the meantime

you're sitting back there going Free

Press baby we're getting all kinds of

great free press what great promotion

this is and then you've flipped it I

mean is it really bad yes it is that

easy and YouTube person of it I mean

yeah she gene Simmons is the expert and

came out version of rock and roll Barton

pushing I mean when when we when we went

over to England for the very first time

and did a run of three marquee shows

we had great coverage out of Fleet

Street out of the trash press and Fleet

Street simply because we put a story out

there that axel killed his dogs all

right what's going to get the Americans


a picture of a goer then knickers around

her ankles what's going to get the Brits

upset don't kill him

all right you know a bunch of drunken

hacks sitting in their pub in Fleet

Street you bet we're gonna feed them a

bone you know it chew on they're telling

me all of this rock and roll that we

love is fake yes not we're being

manipulated Mitch absolutely we are

isn't it wonderful in a purely in any

form of composition there is there's the

dichotomy between gratifying oneself or

gratifying an audience right and very

definitely we can go through a long list

of bands and say they are obviously

pandering to an audience in their form

of construction all right of course

you're being manipulated the thing is

with GNR is we're talking about here is

how did we manipulate getting attention

for content all right now the content I

will say that one of the reasons why

people got next to it is because it was

spirited and it was heartfelt and there

was a common consciousness in that band

that people could recognize now of

course it's you know part of my job is

to go around and push buttons and try

and get people to notice this and bring

this to people's attention um Mitch

we're familiar with pushing buttons

aren't we yeah I think I think I did

that just last night for a little sport

president present company is always

excluded but you know basically as far

as I'm concerned the press is fair

[ __ ] game absolutely

especially the English gutter press like

the Sun and the star and if I can get my

little band from LA you know three or

four inches of a column in the Sun when

they haven't even played in the country

yet just by saying that axle kills dogs

you know Anna I'm willing to bet that

you know half the drunken hacks who

wrote about it in on Fleet Street knew

exactly what was going on and so it was

a good wheeze whatever papers papers


what matters is okay now we got the

punters outside the marquee what's gonna

happen when they go in has no down key

show was a really really really

interesting fulcrum moment and

fortunately this is where having an

English manager helped because I was

able to explain look you're probably

going to get an audience who's not going

to be impressed with you they're getting

a bit think you're a bunch of tarts and

what cease from LA they're gonna give

you [ __ ] they're probably gonna gob

acres of phlegm at you and if you piss

your pants you're done and that first

gig went pretty much like that

and it wasn't bad at the point where I'm

thinking I've got to take my jacket off

because I could see Axl was getting

ready to come down and talk to one or

two people one-on-one specifically in

the audience that things turned and

shifted and the audience got with the

band and realized they weren't just a

bunch of [ __ ] from LA they're a bunch

of hard-asses from LA and if you wanna

[ __ ] talk about it one on one will

come down we'll [ __ ] talk about it

one on one they basically they earned

respect crowd participation yeah you

know it's it's strange animals rock and

roll audience just as the band is a

strange animal too but particularly in

England that's something that over the

years I've noticed each you got to have

your bottle and if you don't have your

bottle loyal they'll tell you apart now

the other thing that you did as part of

this sort of marketing plan is you

created this live album live like a


and you gave this it wasn't game it was

demos with funny funny audience tracks

right well I was gonna get to that so

you took the demos it never played these

songs live for at least not for this

recording you threw on some crowd noise

which i think was from the NFL or

something like that and then you gave

them their own independent label why did

you want to create the perception that

they had their own independent label and

their own thing going on let me answer

that as the fan who bought into that

first [ __ ] let's go back to that point

in time where there's no internet right

you know you're you've got pen pals who

you write letters to and it might be one

person so there's news gossip doesn't

travel like it does now no no III was

I'm a big rock fan I had heard there's

this band in LA called Guns N'Roses

there's a there's a buzz about them cool

cool cool you know

oh they got signed to Geffen and they're

gonna have an album coming out awesome

can't wait for that but guess what it

was just learned that they have released

they had released before signing to

Geffen a live album and it's a very rare

and very collectible and very hard to

find live album very few copies were

ever printed oh my god I've got to track

that down this bands got a buzz Geffen

loves them and there's this rare album

where do I go find this copy of this

album at that time your start I'm

starting to hear from people oh this

could be worth $500 $600 an album so you

know that's as a fan that builds the

desire the craving I got a I got to see

what this is all about

I've got a copy of it somewhere here I

didn't spend $500 well that's more than

I've got Michael cuz I I don't have any

copies left they've all disappeared out

the house that's the cherry on the cake

that's definite it's a cherry on the

cake for me it was far more mundane and

boring and pragmatic than that

in that having been having put out the

first motley record on green world on

leather then having done Berlin as an

independent record then having done out

of the night great white as an

independent record I'd gone through the

process and then again after that doing

shot in the dark as an independent

record great white I've gone through the

process sufficiently to be able to

clearly understand the value of the work

that you do on the independent record in

terms of connecting with press

connecting with writers connecting with

retail with a little bit of the bars

because an awful lot of people would get

their information about where the record

is worthwhile or not from their friendly

clerk and record store clerks you know

the worst snobs of all you know so if

you could get them on your side and get

them talking about something that was a

tremendous advantage the other thing too

was I used to look at major labels as

monolithic beasts and in those days

pretty much the conventional wisdom was

if you could get a band to somehow get

to about the 300,000 sales mark you

might actually get up on the corporate

radar screen and they might actually

start really supporting you and pushing

you so you had to do a work on setup on

your own and what I did not want to have

happen with with guns is I did not for

one minute one appetite to be a cold

start forget because I knew it's going

to be difficult I felt we were probably

dealing with what would be ultimately an

underground band what the [ __ ] do I know

and it was really important to me that I

could do as much setup as possible

before Geffen ran without

record and before they released it so

that was the whole point of doing life

like the suicide and I didn't think I

was going to get away with it to me the

risk element was that they were already

signed to Geffen and somebody would call

me out and call me out for you know

being a false poseur but I thought it

was a risk element I wanted to take

because I really really wanted to do

some work with an indie release before

Geffen started working on appetite you

know I know is what's that it was a

Geffen release though just under a

different name no wasn't oh no how do

you mean a Gaffin release let me tell

you exactly what happened okay suits and

I went to Rosenblatt and said we're

gonna do this and my stipulations were

that there could not be one Geffen

marking right use their distribution

network they could not be one Geffen

marking or or Warner Brothers marking on

the boxes that they came in that they

had to be absolutely scrupulous in that

respect and we did 25,000 units and when

they were printed I drove up to Geffen

loaded them into a back of a van and

drove off with them and I took them to

an independent record company called

important who were originally just based

on the East Coast but they had at that

time they had a West Coast warehouse and

the guy who was in the West and I really

wish I could remember his name because

he's a really really cool guy and really

good to work with his boss on the East

Coast was a total [ __ ] [ __ ] but he

was really good the guy on the west

coast and I forget his name when I feel

really bad about that

but I took the entire consignment to him

and sold him the entire consignment so

important were the distributors and it

didn't go through Warner Brothers and it

didn't go through gas and it went in the

back of him

my rental van and then I went off down

the road and Eddie Rosenblatt you know

once-over over lunch said I rather

wondered if I was over again if I can

see you again but the others once I got

the check for those 25,000 I went back

to Eddie he went to his office and he

stretched his hand out for it and I kind

of half-heartedly pushed it towards him

and then pulled it back and he looked at

me and I said we're gonna use every

penny of this to go to England and he

sat there for a moment thought about it

and he said ok kiddo you're on so every

dime that came from that indie record

empowered us to go to England and do

those marquee shows why did I need to do

that because Warner Brothers in London

were a bunch of a bunch of old drunk you

know the record equivalent of the hacks

from Fleet Street drunks in their local

pubs who couldn't give a rat's ass about


ironically the guy who was running we're

international office in London was

somebody I used to play soccer with back

in the day and I called him up thinking

oh he's gonna be right on board and I

got a superior tone saying you know or

Alan wilt will tell you when it's time

to come over you know maybe you should

get a hit in your country before you

come over and take up our time and I'm

sitting there going listen [ __ ]

this is part of my strategy of babe

breaking the [ __ ] band I need you on

[ __ ] board now and they wouldn't and

they wouldn't put up any money towards

it so that's why the money from the

indie record was really crucial because

that's what funded our first trip to

England and funding that first trip to

England did a number of jobs for me

first of all there was the general

strategy of you know what if you're

gonna break in America you've got a

continental sized landmass that you've

got to coordinate with information and

energy and focus to get this band broken

and people paying attention to it if I'm

in dear old little Inc

it's a tiny little LAN there so now I

can drive across it in five hours easier

to get a focus on a national basis in

that nation secondly there were three

newspapers that came out every week

Melody Maker sounds an enemy and they

will weekly print newspapers and the

press there was really really important

in those days still and if you could get

the press talking about you

you've got your following developing in

that country you've got people starting

to take and take you seriously and give

you attention it's it's an absolute


let's start in England let's rile up

fleets through tea

let's kill some dogs or tell them we

have let's go to the Marquis and play

some hard-ass shows so the Panthers are

talking about it

boom now we got the press in the UK on

our side

suddenly in LA they're looking at a band

with an international cachet right they

work in England so they're obviously

going to work for us here and you know

if it works out well in the press in

England it's obviously going to work

the other thing was was on December the

last issue of music connection in 1986

featured four bands on the cover

one was Guns & Roses and there were

three others and what does that do to me

[ __ ] freak me out

because I'm going that should just be my

band on the cover what are the other

[ __ ] three bands doing on there so

that told my consciousness I'm I'm in a

pack here and I've got to get ahead of

the pack and I've got to be the first to

get to the journalists I got to be the

first to get to the UK I got to be the

first to get to Germany I got to be

ahead of the pack because right now if

music connection which is printed in Los

Angeles is putting these four bands on

the cover that means in the

consciousness of people will actually

live in LA they're seeing it as a tight

little scene and lethal small bands

equal oh my god there's a scene but my

band is infinitely [ __ ] superior to

the other three what the hell are we

sharing the cover for that was

apparently to get to England first yeah

the other thing I was gonna ask you

moving on the third thing that you did

that I found interesting was within that

time frame you accepted to go on tour

with Aerosmith

Aerosmith was into this sort of regal

and look with you know nice ballads like

angel and dude looks like a lady it

seemed to be completely opposite to what

GNR was so so how do I not work the

clubs why the Aerosmith tour and and

it's sort of a juxtaposition of dirty

street boys with pretty boys let's get

some chronology going here are you

talking first UK tour that didn't happen

no no I'm talking about when you came

back stateside why did you choose to go

out why I mean this was 1888 summer of

88 okay yes yeah what happened with the

first one in the UK that didn't happen

obviously the strategy was we'll go in

there we'll do these three Markie shows

do a couple of shows in Germany and then

we need to come back on a good support

slot and Aerosmith were going into the

UK in the perfect time for us to be

developing momentum and notoriously back

in those days you couldn't really rely

on Aerosmith getting their European

dates done for whatever reasons right

god knows what distractions they had I

mean initially with bands they go live

do we have to tour England I mean it's

just you know warm beer and cold women

you know with Aerosmith it's it's cold

women warm there

where's my [ __ ] dealer you know I was

been yeah anyway but wait when you look

at it though arrows Smith and let's get

back to when like in a state was it

sorry and if I remember correctly this

would have been at the back end of

October of 87 we were supposed to be

doing yep and this whole build through

the UK was absolutely critical to the

strategy of I had for breaking the band

and the Aerosmith tour fell through so

our English agent was a guy called John

Jackson and John and I would you know

I'd be up really late at night and he'd

be up very early in the morning we would

be discussing these things and John

joking me in one of the conversation

said why don't you just come and

headline yourself and I thought about it

for a moment and I said that's a great

idea John why don't we and he said you

know what I think it might be possible

and I said you're kidding he said look

let me think about this for 24 hours and

I'll come back to you and John came back

he said you know what if you're really

prepared to take a huge risk we could

put up five dates and as a possibility

we might pull it off bear in mind that

Warner Brothers hadn't even sold 5,000

records at that point and he's talking

about headlining and when he came back

with his five dates the fifth one was a

hammersmith odeon which is three

thousand three hundred and twenty five

seats if I remember correctly so he's

telling me that we can sell more tickets

than where can albums and of course as a

you know especially in the conditioning

you had in those days you'd have to have

a wide album base to sell that many


he's going you've sold maybe three four

thousand albums but come and tour anyway

and we went for it

we have failed oh yeah it was but like

anything else it was calculated and my

calculation was that I saw Warner

Brothers UK would that [ __ ] up that

they didn't represent what I'd what our

base could be or should be and my sense

of face and power of the UK press was

such that if we could for example get

some silly stories in the press you know

we will get people to turn out and also

small detail and I have one left framed

but the poster for was a cross right

look [ __ ] awesome on those walls in

England and Nottingham and Liverpool

where they pasted them up and we pasted

them everywhere and that was an

eye-catcher and that really got you and

they look [ __ ] awesome it were it was

a risk it worked your question is why

would you go with Aerosmith well in the

States because I mean you know Aerosmith

will came back and they wore the red

clothes and they were they were getting

a little bit more flashy aren't you

jumping ahead I mean got G&R a little

bit did dates with Alice Cooper before

that there there you were you did

smaller venues with Bain you know like

theatres that was smaller packages

Aerosmith wasn't right yeah I mean I

recall seeing them on a show in Rockford

Illinois where it was Guns and Roses

judo and zodiac Mindwarp

yeah so I mean that stuff was happening

before Aerosmith in the u.s. yeah yeah I

guess I'm giving you the Canadian

perspective because for me Guns & Roses

was on MuchMusic

and then you know next thing you know

there's a Guns and Roses with Aerosmith

tour playing south of the border a

couple hours from here but I don't

recall it dungeon Rosa's doing anything

else before that up here at least I mean

I could have been wrong Michael yeah I

think we've just had a very eloquent

definition of Canadian winter describe

hibernation they're exactly they

hibernate they miss like two years well

I mean think about it

album gets released in July of 87

so like mitch is completely oblivious

all through the winter until suddenly in

the spring of 88 he's gonna [ __ ] me

where the Guns'n'Roses come from the

pool July I think it's a lie a whole

year goes by so then they put their

spawn Mitch I mean he's in his goddamn

igloo I've seen them on TV it was bad

you poor Canadians you miss everything

don't you yeah you know but no but

honestly we do I mean Canadian

television and radio rules prevent that

what I was gonna say Canadian content

rule you know we'd have this thing up

here called can con which I'm sure you

you must have run into with guns and

roses you know we never had MTV up here

wasn't allowed so we eventually had to

wait for muchmusic which came out three

years after you know a band like rat

played the Toronto Maple Leaf Gardens

once never played any other Canadian

dates it's just the way it was I mean

Canada protected its culture and its

community and so unless you were the

Rolling Stones or u2 or kiss and sort of

were able to cross these international

boundaries we had Gowan and honeymoon

suite and Brighton Rock and that was it

you know and still in do singing in

French yeah before she even broke the

amine you poor thing yeah

yeah I have I get the beautiful memories

and I'm serious about that of being able

to say I saw guns and roses in a small

theater with a lineup of judo and zodiac

Mindwarp and the band actually came out

and did a meet and greet with like ten

people afterwards I mean it was just you

know you were part of you were part of

something I was I was able to see this

thing growing I saw them opening for

Alice Cooper Wow yeah yeah I mean I saw

them opening for for Aerosmith like I

said and I saw Axl take a hissy fit and

try to beat somebody up in the crowd so

I was right in there on the ground

ground floor of riots it was great

somebody threw a bottle at the stage he

jumped right at it threw the bottle back

and next thing you know there was a

scuffle going on so Alan let's go back

to what's going on in Geffen Records at

this time are they are they still not

sure about their commitment to the band

have they finally said you know what

we're getting behind this band what

what's your relationship with Geffen is

as this is starting to grow well you got

a factor in another element to in the in

tune of of 87 I had a record released

and then I had a record released four

weeks later they were both originally

scheduled to be released on the same day

and I prevailed on Eddie Rosenblatt to

give me a bit of a break and let me do a

little bit of work on one before I had

to start taking on two records from

debut records from new bands or pretty

much new simultaneously and the other


fortuitously absolutely lit up AOR radio

and but for god damn Gaffin and their

[ __ ] Whitesnake my band would have

been the number one band AOR radio that

summer but we were always number two

behind Whitesnake and that band went

gold in November and when you have two

things I mean you know I'm really pushed

to be able to recall we're in rock and

roll anybody in management had the

privilege of the experience of two bands

breaking simultaneously which was

fundamentally what I was dealing with

and what I was working through and

trying to drive and I remember getting a

phone call from the guy around ICM

booking agency at one point and we've

just secured for November of 87 Motley

Crue for a Motley Crue tour for GNR and

a month the first month of Whitesnake

playing in America for the other band

and this guy said how does it feel to

have the two hottest up-and-coming bands

in the nation and I said not as good as

having the two hottest headliners let's

get to work

point was I said I was trying to keep my

head in a very grounded place and even

so there was a sense of energy momentum

and a little bit of accomplishment so

when in December of 87 Rosenblatt took

me out for lunch and sat me down and

said you've done a great job kiddo we

really appreciate it

but we think you should prep the band

for coming off the road and start

getting them ready for a second album

and I'm getting this instruction from

Geffen an 87 December of 80s

I was a little stunned to put it mildly

because at that point we were somewhere

between we were closing on an in on

about a quarter million sales and that

had been done on the basis of

word-of-mouth and press and touring we'd

had no support from album radio a taking

a kind of half-hearted and ridiculous

run at top 40 radio with jungle which

was obviously gonna go nowhere at that

point but my point was that if we could

get almost a quarter million sales

between July and December without album

radio playing the record and without one

single showing on MTV if we could turn a

couple of though one or other of those

mediums around I was thinking I might

even be you know I'm an optimist but we

could be looking in the platinum record

here so I to little standard back suits

felt exactly the way as I felt about it

and at the time if I remember correctly

we've been offered to do a holiday show

you know a December show in the Santa

Monica Civic which is one night and you

know the money would be good but it was

one night and alternatively we looked at

going to Perkins Palace in Pasadena

which is a theater show the economics

weren't quite as brilliant but it was

four nights four nights is an event four

nights you got people talking about it

four nights you're probably going to

need people to come at least twice but

you've got a better shot at getting

journalists saying and four nights

of an event you've got half a chance of

getting some indulgent lazy [ __ ] gaff

an executive to come down there and for

nights especially when you're hiring the

PR person who has a shall we say very

close relationship with David Lee Roth

that we're going to get some faces down

there and you get faces around an event

and even a [ __ ] record executive can

notice that so that's what we elected to

do is to do the full Knights of Perkins

Palace and it was an event and you know

we were we were basically giving away

tickets on the fourth night but it was

still an event and in the consciousness

of Geffen when we came back after the

Christmas holiday was well maybe this

guy isn't totally out of his mind maybe

we should keep watching this record and

Gasman as a company and as an individual

started getting on on onto MTV

I had already sent a letter to John

cannelli it was the very last thing I

did walking out of my office prior to

the Christmas holiday

I wrote this really toxic acerbic acidic

letter to John Canelli ask him why the

[ __ ] he was supporting all these gay

[ __ ] bands excuse me for using the

language but I did back in those days

God forgive me from the UK well we had a

good old American rock-and-roll band

here that he was ignoring and John

blessed him took it graciously and he

and I ended up being really really good

and close friends but it was one of

those bridge burnings letters where it

was like the last thing I did was hit

that fax button and walk out locked the

door and put it all out of my mind for

the next week while we had the Christmas

holiday because I'd had next no support

on great white at MTV and none on G&R

and I was pissed and I was getting he

canal he thought it was funny

good study and he was right yeah well so

so Alan you know it seems apparent to me

that we've we've been at this for an

hour and there is so much G&R stuff to

talk about and you know we haven't even

gotten to the band breaking yet we

haven't even gotten to use Your Illusion

yet I I think if you're totally I'm

wrecking out was it released we we've

released the record illusion finished

them out if you're up for this

let's let's do a part three that takes

us into GNR after things start breaking

sure whatever you want good because

because otherwise I feel like we've got

another hour two hours that we could

talk and and I just don't want the

listeners to have to sit down for two

hours to get the whole thing but I don't

want to miss that part of the GNR story

from you so I mean this week I've been

fixated like watching a documentary here

of all this is amazing but again yeah we

haven't even gotten to GN our breaking

yet yeah we're still on side a of

appetite that's a good analogy

we haven't even flipped the vinyl yet

you know what the week we felt Oh a

little bit of a slow start and that was

a bit my foe I was my blood sugar was

down oh no I don't not not at all I mean

every everything we've been talking

about here I've been fine and very

intriguing and interesting and and it's

just there's so much more I want to talk

about let me let me flip it for my in

for a second okay because you know a lot

of what we've been talking about you

know is it's fairly well known history I

think I think what might be entertaining

is you know if we if you're up for this

is I think it would be amusing to talk

about the renegotiation that went on

with John that was served with gas and

with David gas

absolutely battle went because there are

some moments of really high comedy in

that and an area of which I think has

been completely under analyzed and that

is the role of the main arts in the

destruction of the band we can talk

about the role of you know Mike my dear

dearly beloved dougie goldstein and you

know so on and so forth and in the

demise of the band but I think one of

the more intriguing things cuz it's it

gives you a fascinating microscopic

perspective on actual and his psyche but

the acts that a couple of charlatans

from Sedona Arizona just over the hill

from here over the mountain from here

could take him for so much money

manipulate him as they did and be as far

as I'm concerned one of the primary

forces in the breakup of the band is

really fascinating I heard from both you

know Reese and Goldstein you know the

the kind of money that these two

charlatans took from Axl and his camp

and those around him and it's stunning

is staggering I mean most famously

seventy five thousand dollars for an

exorcism you know on top of that it

didn't work obviously well yeah I mean I

think those are are two amazing things

to discuss and and I feel like if we

just if we start discussing them now

we've got another hour ahead of us or

that way that's gonna gloss them over

and I and I don't know story I'm over

and I don't want to miss some what if

what have we do this let's commit to our

listeners that we're gonna come back and

we're gonna do another episode and and

those two topics we're gonna jump right

into sure whatever even do because I I

would I know that

the renegotiations with Geffen I would

sit here and probably have a ton of

questions about that and totally want to

go and I guess Mitch said I don't

want to have you gloss over it and make

it a fifteen-minute here it is and no

we're gonna rush it along no I don't

want to rush along you you you should

not be rushed along and any of this

stuff and I know Mitch and I are more

than willing to talk to you as much as

you're willing to chat I'm here you'll

service guys and you know you you're two

wonderful people and whatever you

require is is always said let's do that

so everybody watching here here's our

promise to you this is part two we have

now committed to a part three and and

and who knows Alan may become a

returning guest that just keeps coming

back over who knows but we will come

back and we will do a part three that's

gonna talk about those those two

specific stories that that Alan wants to

bring up I think they're gonna be

extremely interesting I don't want us to

gloss over them for you guys so you got

you guys haven't had much of a chance to

ask any questions either in this I feel

like we've asked questions oh absolutely

and by the time we get to tell us your

thoughts on Chinese democracy will be -

part 12 in the series so I'm looking

forward to that but but I will ask you

one thing because we've got an attentive

audience right now learning all about

appetite and and sort of that quickly

just give a plug for the two projects

you're working on right now storm and

perception and Chris but let's throw a

little website action in there or you

know iTunes plug-in just release their

album this week or last week last week

yeah I - do they have a website that we

can throw in there just to get people

seeing what are you doing now own

websites you can find the the album's

that you know places like Amazon and you

know just some penetration into you know

the best buys and so on and so forth but

it you know obviously it's very early

days but you can you can find it and in

terms of a plug I mean you know far be

it for you know me to have to do my own

shilling but

and if you think that we you know had

half a clue in the past then I would say

you're not gonna waste your time

checking these two out if yeah if you

had a half a clue in the past you've got

three-quarters of a clue today seriously

check him out Mitch and I have both

heard these like I said storm a

perception I've been following them they

just released the album last week you

can find both of these guys on Facebook

they've got Facebook pages they've got

updates and information going on

definitely worth checking out both of

them yeah the other thing is too is that

you know it brought a little bit of an

old-fashioned sense of of quality to the

packaging you know so you know my

combination is I believe in the Mojo of

touch me feel me see me there's nothing

quite substitutes for having the real

thing in your hand and we put a little

bit of work into the packaging so as you

connect better to the content you

connect better to the band there's some

little things to get your imagination

going and think about what it's about

where it's going why exists you got a CD

and a DVD so it's the full experience

it's yeah it's price of a single CD and

you know you get a DVD as well so you

know and if you check tear off the

coupon you get a packet of Doritos when

you get that's right free M&Ms for all

exactly well no wait three dr. pepper

when you're talking about Guns and Roses

yeah dr. pepper the eager Allen you know

thank thanks so much for sitting down

with us for for for this episode and and

and the amazing insight and storm in

theory the minute the miniseries in and

I can't wait to get you scheduled again

to come back and and we'll get more

anytime yeah

be my pleasure hello this is bumblefoot

from Guns N'Roses and I just released my

own award-winning gourmet hot sauces

from the mild cherry bourbon bumble

Isha's to the over-the-top bumble [ __ ]

so if you want to get bumble [ __ ]

visit bumblefoot com for more


you've been listening to dropping the

needle dropping the needle with michael

brand bold and niche Lafon

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