2013.08.29 - Let There Be Talk - Interview with Marc Canter

Transcript:

Dean Delrey: Hey, what's happening? Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Let There Be talk. It's August 29th, the Thursday. And it's another beautiful day here in Hollywood, CA.  Got a great episode here today. I think you guys gonna enjoy it. I had a guy on by the name of Marc Canter. If you don't know who that is, which most of you probably don't, his family owns Canter's Deli in Hollywood, which to me is just as much rock'n'roll as the Rainbow Bar and Grill is. Canter's is open 24 hours a day. It's been around since 1931 or something like that. It's been a Mecca of rock and comedy for years. Comedians go eat there after the comedy store gigs back in the 70s, it was huge. Then the 80s, it had a resurgence again. They got a little bar in there called the Kibitz Room. Wallflowers were playing there. Do full blown jams on, I don't think it was, like Tuesday nights. So Marc Canter is the son of the owners who grew up with Slash? Saul Hudson. Who is slash? They went to school together since. I think he said the 3rd grade. And they're best friends. And he basically kind of funded a lot of the early Guns N' Roses stuff, like their fliers, their ads in BAM magazine. He took photos of them, he audio documented them, he video documented them. He was there since day one of Guns N' Roses. He has an amazing book. I recommend you get... you can get it, it's Reckless Road, is the book. Marc has a full on, like, store on eBay. "Marc Canter" is the seller. That's his seller name. He took some amazing photos. I got some photos from... He has photos of Slash playing in high school and his first band. He took some amazing photos of GN'R, like their first band, you know, like band photo backstage photos of them at The Troubadour, Street Scene, The Roxy. This guy was there, he's the real deal, his family's been around rock and roll all their life. He was an amazing guest. I mean, I was pretty fired up to fucking have him on. I love rock photography. My house is loaded with it. It just tells stories. I can look at rock photos for hours. It might sound boring to you, but whatever you're into, just, you know, consider that you're a rock photography. I don't even know what the fuck that means, but sit back and tune in.

Thanks everybody, I've been getting some great emails lately. Every day I get an e-mail from you guys saying you love the show. That's, I mean that, it's just unbelievable. I love it. If you want to donate to the podcast, help out little money deandelrey@yahoo.com, hit me up. Make a donation. I gotta donation a couple days ago, shit, I want to have his name on here. Oh man, feel like a dick. He bought a hat from me. I have some Let There Be Talk hats now. He bought a hat and he donated money. Let's see who it was. Man, I feel like a clown. Can't find it. Maybe I'll find it. While I'm looking for that just give you some upcoming dates coming up. I'm gonna be at the Comedy Store this Saturday night, 11:00 PM, a great spot. Come down and see me, say, "Hey". 11:00 PM this Saturday at the Comedy Store. Also, Sammy Obeid [?] tickets are still on sale. Sammy and I are going to be doing Largo, September 20th, come out for that. That'll be fun. It's a special night, Sammy celebrates 1000 days of comedy in a row. So that's pretty damn cool. Oh, I got the guy's name right here. Man, I don't know how to say his last name. Michael Teachben something. TJEBBEN. [In New York accent] "Hey, Michael Tjebben, how you been?" I don't know how to say it. I feel like dick, but he donated money and bought a hat. Thank you, Michael. You rock.

This episode, like all month of August, is brought to you by Iron Heart, Iron Heart Clothing. These guys rule. I wear their clothes everywhere. They have the best denim on the planet. It's Iron Heart Clothing. And the guy's name is Giles. You want to check out his website, go to ironheart.co.uk and check it out. That's enough bullshit, sorry. Check out the episode. Marc Canter here is man, you guys rock.

All right, here we are. Another episode of Let There Be Talk. Got a great guest today. My guest is Marc Canter, right?

Marc Canter: How you doing?

DD: How are you buddy?

MC: Pretty good. I've been working to the bone in the last couple of weeks.

DD: And what do you do?

MC: I run things over at Canter's Deli, my family's business. But I do, besides restaurant stuff, I do actually physical maintenance, refrigeration, plumbing, electrical. And it's just been a crazy two weeks of nonstop repairs and new construction. We just put in a new eight beer tap system in the bar and, you know, just a lot of work, a lot of refrigeration, a lot of moving things around and building shelves to make that.

DD: Right.

MC: I mean, cause you need backup kicks [?] so there's like eight, a walking box that used to carry 3 kegs of beer. We had Coors on tap, now has 18 kegs of beer.

DD: Wow.

MC: So to make that work and still function normally is not, you know, it's a little bit of a trick.

DD: Yeah. So people that are tuning in right now are going, "What? Why the fuck do you got this guy on?" You know what I mean? The reason is, if you aren't from Los Angeles, Canter's is pretty much, I would say, a heart and soul of rock'n'roll for many years. I met Jacob Dylan there. The Kibitz. It has a bar in there called the Kibitz room and that is where a lot of bands would play over years. Even right now, Tuesday nights, my buddy Brad Watson, who plays keyboards at the Comedy Store, has a band there on Tuesdays, right?

MC: They're called the Fockers, Friends Of Canter's Kibitz Room. I mean, the bar really opened in 1961. And we had, you know, through the mid 60s you had a lot of, pretty much the whole hippie scene, you know, from, say, 65 to, say, 1970. The Doors, Janis Joplin, the Mamas and Papas, Frank Zappa, just you name it, they all hung out there.

DD: Now, why did they hang out there?

MC: Well, for one thing, the food was good. It was 24 hours. It was only us and Ben Frank's pretty much that were open after, you know, 9:00 o'clock or 10:00 o'clock at night. We have a seating capacity of like 350 people, and it's just, you know, one, the food is a one-of-a-kind food. So besides the fact we got you cornered, there's nowhere else to go. We're open 24 hours and that works, you know, for pretty much anybody.

DD: It's a Jewish deli.

MC: It's a Jewish deli. And, you know, back then a lot of people, you know, hippies were a little scary looking for some people, you know, some establishments, but we never had problems with them.

DD: Now why is that? Was your family cool? Were they hippies? Were they into rock'n'roll? Because this fucking place is rock'n'roll. I mean, if you read the I'm Dying Up Here book, the Comedy Store book, and you read about in the 70s, all the huge comics would go there. You know, like Dave Letterman and Robin Williams. All those guys after the sets, they go there all night.

MC: Starving, starving comedians, always. Seinfeld, every... All of them. I've met them all and they all loved Canter's and they can't... It was like what they did after, you know, after they worked, they came to Canter's and hung out a couple hours before they went home. But I mean, you had a lot of bands that would eat there also, you know, throughout the 70s and 80s and it's just, it's got a huge rock'n'roll background, although it's not necessarily from my family, other it probably starts with me because I grew up with Slash. But other than that, there wasn't an interest, it's just what drew the crowd was, I think because of the night.... you know, it's only also movie stars too but I think just because the fact we are open 24 hours. I mean, I read an article in Rolling Stone, a Neil Young article about 3-4 years ago and he said when he moved here from Canada in 1966, he drove a hearse and the first thing he did was drive patrons from Canter's Deli to the Sunset Strip, back and forth for a dollar, right? So in a way, he was our independent contractor.

DD: That's amazing, right? He's just carting in cool people for you.

MC: Yeah. And then when he saved up enough money, he was heading up to San Francisco to start a band, and he literally had a traffic signal, he met Steve Stills and that was, you know, they started something with that. But it's just, there's a lot of history there.

DD: It is, man. I mean, Canter's is... it has a special place in my heart. It's basically where I met Jacob Dylan. I didn't really meet him. What happened was they played a gig at the.... What's the place called? It's on Pico. The Mint! So it was when it was the shitty really small one. And after we played, Rami Jaffee was like, "Hey, we're all going to Canter's, meet us over there." So we went over there and I sit down and I started talking to this guy. He's like extremely good looking. He looks great. And I'm all, "Yeah, I'm Dean," he's all, "Yeah, I saw your band and you guys are good, I'm Jacob." And then I realized, well, this is fucking Jacob Dylan. I didn't really put it together for a minute, you know, but he met his wife in there.

MC: He met his wife there, Paige. He's a nice guy. I still see him now because my son is friends with his kid, actually. His kids in a band now.

DD: Yeah, Levi.

MC: Yeah. So it's a small world, you know?

DD: It really is. I mean, I think about like that day I met Jacob and we've been best friends ever since. I went on tour with them 20 years... no, not 20, like 10 years later.

MC: Well, let me tell you a quick story since you brought that up. The Wallflowers actually got the music going in the Kibitz... Well, I shouldn't really say that. A waiter named Eric Gold that used to work for Canter's.  He started the Kibitz for music going in 1989, just doing some jazz on Monday nights. But The Wallflowers were hanging out there to drink because our beers were $1.20, or $1.30 tap beers, and they saw this guy do his jazz and they thought, "Wow, can we come tomorrow and do some like rock'n'roll?" And I said, "Sure, why not." I knew Rami from Fairfax High School, a few years older, but I still knew him, same crowd, same friends. And I said, "Sure, why not?" So what happened is the next night he showed up with like 40 people, all musicians, mainly musicians, and what they did is The Wallflowers jam but they didn't jam as a band.

DD: No, they just said that, that thing where they would circle-in dudes?

MC: Right. So it was never more than two of them on stage at once, but two, at least of one band. It was just like a whole, like maybe 12 musicians on stage doing, you know, 60s and 70s cover songs and having fun. Sometimes the songs would fall apart because not everyone really knew how they went.

DD: That's right. But it was just this beautiful scene. I would go there, you know, I mean, bands are playing, I really learned about music there other than rock'n'roll. I was just this rock metal head, you know, I was into rock and like Metallica and all that. But then I started finding out about The Band, you know, George Harrison solo stuff, that kind. They were playing that kind of stuff. And I was like, "Wow, this is great shit, man!". And it was such a scene, man.

MC: You know, they had a good range. That group of musicians really had a good feel for good music. You just can't believe, they were like 23 years old at the time and you don't see that really these days. These days music is all weird and you can't even pronounce the name of these bands and, you know, you go to these festivals and there's 120,000 billion bands playing and who are these people?

DD: Yeah, and they're just like shells, right?

MC: A lot of it's electronic music, and even if it's real music, they don't have an image. There was a time when you went to Westwood here and you bought a poster on a Friday night and you came home, you put it in your wall and it was, you know, Zeppelin or Kiss or Aerosmith or Rush or something, and there was something cool about, there was an image going on, you could identify every member of the band.

DD: Bands were like gangs, you know, like, if you see The Wallflowers, you go, "Oh, that's fucking Wallflowers," because they have like, suits, they had cool hats and shit. You see Guns N' Roses, you know that's Guns N' Roses, man. They go, "Oh, that guy's in GN'R." They're like gangs.

MC: And Guns N' Roses is one of the last bands.

DD: That's right.

MC: I mean, Kurt Cobain kind of killed that Rockstar image, although he had a rockstar image.

DD: He did.

MC: But he was... He killed it as he still was it at the same time. And just changed everything and like, okay, I went to see Rage Against The Machine and Muse at the Coliseum-

DD: I went to that.

MC: - a year or two ago or whenever that was. I don't even go to shows that often although I did go see System Of A Down and that I was happy with.

DD: Yeah, that's fucking sick, right? Hollywood Bowl?

MC: No, I actually saw them at the Forum.

DD: Oh, the Forum. OK.

MC: But anyways, back to Muse. I like their music but I didn't like their show because I'm looking and it was boring. They didn't look like anybody. They didn't dress like anybody. They got up there, the music sounded fine. But Ii I'm blind, it's perfect.

DD: Yep.

MC: But I wasn't enjoying what I was seeing. Then Rage gets up and even though they don't have that rockstar image kind of a thing, they were bouncing and there was energy and-

DD: Yeah, they fucking destroyed.

MC: Yeah, yeah.

DD: Every time I see Rage, we just talked about it, we had a a segment on the show where Rolling Stone magazine named the top ten live acts and they had Rage at #10. And I was like, "Fuck, yeah." I mean, I've seen Rage and you've seen them and you can't believe what's coming off the stage. And it shows-

MC: Energy. 100% energy. But other than that, I'm gonna be honest with you, I haven't felt that energy in many, many years. Many, many years. You just don't see it anymore.

DD: Yeah, you don't. You don't. And I think it's mostly because rock back then was, you played it because it was in your blood and you didn't care what happened the next day. You don't care if you get a deal or whatever. It's these five guys, you're out, you're gonna go play the gig, you're gonna rock. That's what you do. Meet some girls, maybe have some drinks, and that was your life.

MC: It was an attitude. That whole thing was an attitude. Not only were they, you know, you find good bands that are fit with each other, how to write songs and sing, you know, good vocals and strong guitar and whatever. But it was an attitude that went with it that helped your image. Now you might find some good songwriters, you might find some good vocalists, you might find even some good guitar players, but you don't find bands that have the combination of all five elements together. You know, like Led Zeppelin had.

DD: Yeah, they're the best.

MC: And there wasn't, if you listen to any Zeppelin album, you're not going to find one song that you would prefer not to be there.

DD: Yeah, it doesn't even matter. I remember one time Henry Rollins called In Through The Outdoor the worst Zappa song ever, and that's like, that would be anybody's best song. Right?

MC: Okay, I'm going to exclude Koda from that because there's probably a few things on there-

DD: Well, that's just kind of a junkyard and-

MC: They would have been better off not even putting that out. But other than that, you put on any Zeppelin song from any album and hit random and it doesn't matter. It's all good.

DD: It's so fucking great.

MC: When I was hanging out with Slash and following him up, you know from 1981 when he started playing guitar, you know there was a certain... I knew he had the talent and I, you know, because he was a great drawing artist before that, and you know we raced BMX together and he's a little quicker and his tricks are a little better and you just something... superhuman about him.

DD: Let's talk about this a little bit because that's the reason I got you on the show. Of course Canter's is a big part of my life, I love it and everything, but basically you and Slash, you went to school together or whatever?

MC: Went to 3rd Street Elementary school together in 1976.

DD: And that's when you first met him and you guys hit it off as friends?

MC: He was trying to steal my motorbike.

DD: Really?

MC: It was parked at the KFC on 3rd and Fuller. I was in there getting some things. He was walking by, saw it, thinking of stealing it, looked inside to see who it is, you know, who's watching. And then he said, "Oh, I recognize that kid," because we went to school together, although I never spoke with him before. So he realized instead of trying to steal it, why not just ask me if you could ride it? And that was... turned out he only lived a block away. And, you know, we started carpooling to school and we became friends instantly.

DD: Where did you guys grow up? What neighborhood?

MC: The Brea and 3rd, that area.

DD: Yeah. It's kind of like the Jewish neighborhood over there.

MC: Yeah, yeah. Kind of like, right where Chuck's liquor store used to be there.

DD: Right. Right. And so you guys hit it off then. And are you guys listening to rock'n'roll together? Are you just BMX guys?

MC: We're just friends. And then BMX came in, like, literally two years later. And then we did that together and, you know, just hanging out. It wasn't really music yet because we went to John Burrough... after 3rd Street we both went to John Burrows Junior High School, but somewhere about the 8th grade he got kicked out for probably bad attendance or something, right, went to Bancroft. So we kind of split for about a year and we just lost touch. And then in that year he started playing guitar. And he started getting interested in Aerosmith and, you know, Zeppelin and AC/DC and all those bands. And I also coincidentally liked exactly the same music. And we each didn't know that we were into exactly the same thing, right? Then we found each other at the end of the 9th grade. The summer of the 9th grade, we both ended up at Beverly Hills High School for the 10th grade, but our mothers both put us for, you know, that summer school, so you get used to the school. And we bumped into each other at summer school and, you know, I had, like, an Aerosmith shirt on and he was like, "Oh, totally," you know, whatever. So we caught up, we did a little catching up and then he said, you know, "I'm playing guitar now. I'm in a band. Titus Sloan, come check us out. We're having rehearsal today". So I immediately knew instinctively that it was going to be good. And I showed up that rehearsal. Of course I was blown away. They didn't have a singer yet. It was just a three piece.

DD: Right, right. And Slash had like crazy short hair because I saw some early photos of him, he kind of had like a small, like, fro. I saw some of your pictures. But no tattoos of course, all that. Just the first band, kind of high school thing, right?

MC: Right. And so I kind of supported him and, you know, helped him out with equipment and whatever, flyers for gigs and just whatever.

DD: You were like his rodeo [?] or whatever.

MC: No, just his friend that also knew that he needed to get his music out. So I had the means of helping him do that, driving him to rehearsal, you know, buying him food, whatever. Whatever it took to get to the next gig.

DD: No, wait. Slash's parents, weren't they rich?

MC: No.

DD: I thought, like his mom was in the business or so. No, that's Lenny Kravitz.

MC: Yeah.

DD: Lenny Kravitz' parents were in the biz.

MC: His mom designed clothes for like David Bowie and different you know... And his dad actually was in the business too, he did record covers artwork, you know, for record companies, but always month to month, you know. And there was a lot going on, there wasn't much money but-

DD: Is Slash only child?

MC: No, he's got a brother. Actually, his brother is now named Ash, but he picked that name before Slash got famous. But his real name was Albion. He just didn't wanna go with Albion. So he went with Ash. So Slash and Ash.

DD: Slash and Ash! I got a buddy named Ash. He was in a band. I think there's guys that... Ash is a cool name, man. It's not around. You know what I mean?

MC: Right. I do, totally.

DD: So is the brother older?

MC: Younger. When we were like in the 6th grade, he was in the 1st grade.

DD: Oh, wow.

MC: We're like five years older.

DD: So he starts rolling in this band and then-

MC: Yeah, what happens is he's frustrated. He can't really find a singer. Finally finds a singer, but it's not really clicking. And then he realizes that the only way it's gonna work is if he finds what what he called a professional singer. Someone that plays like the Troubadour, the Whisky, and that, you know, can get out and entertain a crowd and have great range. And we heard that this band Rose was playing at Gazarri's and at the time it was Izzy and Bill. It wasn't an Axl yet. And he said, "I heard this-"

DD: Oh, he goes by Bill?

MC: Yeah, "This band called Rose and I'd love to get Bill and Izzy in my band," or join with them or something. And so we went to see him them Steven Adler. Steven Adler was already hanging out with Slash and drumming. And for a dollar to get into Gazarri's... I think they're doing a night where every band plays three song.

DD: Oh yeah, I remember that.

MC: One of those.

DD: Yeah it was like a Monday night. It was like 18 bands or something. Bill Gazzarri would have a thing-

MC: And I just remember seeing Izzy flying around with his guitar and Axl just vibrating, just belting out these extreme, gnarly vocals with his veins popping out of his neck. And it was just intense and right away would call our attention. And so Slash met with him afterwards and they decided to put Slash, or change Rose, or it might have been called the Hollywood Rose at that time, and call it the New Hollywood Rose. And they made some changes, they added Steven and Slash and they got rid of their drummer and their guitar player, Chris Weber. And somehow a new bass player came, Steve Darrell at that time wasn't at that gig, so somehow they conjured him up.

DD: Where's Tracii Guns at this time?

MC: Tracii Guns is in.... Let's see, this is in 1984. Tracii Guns is probably just in L.A. Guns.

DD: Right.

MC: I'm trying to think for a second. Or about to start LA Guns, right around, you know, right in that time. Because what happened was that Hollywood Rose got together with Slash anyways around May of '84 and they disassembled in August. I think August 25th was their last gig and it just fell apart. And what happened was Axl ended up joining Tracii-

DD: Oh I see. So this band is before they fall apart, then he joins with Tracii Guns-

MC: He joined LA Guns, plays two gigs at the Troubadour October 5th and October 12th of 1984. I was at those gigs at midnight. That fell apart real quick and don't know what Axl did after that, Slash was kind of looking for a band and then... Oh by the way, Izzy was in the New Hollywood Rose for about a week and then he quit to join London.

DD: Oh, that's right.

MC: And what happened was that, you know, Slash might have auditioned for Poison, not that he wanted to, but we kind of made him do it because it was a good stepping stone. But he basically killed his own audition by saying, "I'm not gonna say 'Hi, my name is Slash' and squirt some silly string in the crowd," or whatever.

DD: Oh, that was the shit they were doing?

MC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the band was selling out the Troubadour and their old guitar player, Matt Smith, knew Slash because Poison used to gig with Hollywood Rose sometimes. Matt knew that Slash was the shit and they were friends and they and Matt liked Aerosmith and we hung out a little bit. So slash like Matt, just didn't like the rest of the band. But when Matt knocked his girlfriend up and moved back to Pennsylvania, he recommended Slash for the job.

DD. Right, for Poison?

MC: Yeah. And they auditioned him. If he didn't blow his own audition by saying, "Nah-nah, you guys aren't gonna....there's no way, you guys are lame," but if he would have said, "Yeah, I want to join you," they would have taken him in a second because obviously he's a good guitar player. But instead they got CC Deville. So long story short, now comes around Christmas of '84 and Axl and Izzy are like, you know, ready to give it up, but they thought, "We'll give it one more shot," and they put together Hollywood Rose again and did a reunion show. And they got Chris. They wanted Slash, but he was working in Tower Video and couldn't get the night off, but they ended up back with like, Chris Webber, I believe. And they did one gig and there was a little energy there and they thought, "Hmm, that's kind of interesting." And then literally at that same time, Axl and Tracii put together a side project just simply for writing music only. And they decided to take a piece of each name, Guns and Roses, I mean L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, Guns and Roses. And it was a side project. And they used the bass player, Ole Beich from L.A. Guns, and the drummer Rob Gardner. And it was Axl and Izzy from, you know, Hollywood Rose. And they played one gig, their bass player quit and then they hired Duff, Duff lived right, you know, like across from them near the Coconut Teaser. And so Duff was in for a few gigs. They started writing like, you know, Move To The City, Think About You, Don't Cry was already written by Axl and Izzy. They had, you know, Anything Goes from a year before, Shadow Of Your Love, Reckless. They had all those, that stuff. But that's what they were doing. And, you know, it was kind of going, they did some gigs and then Duff booked a little tour to Seattle. And right about then, Duff was kind of feeling, "I might have to head out of here, I don't know, Tracii, it's just not...It's  good, but it's not exactly what I want, but I'll stick around until I find something better." But meanwhile, he booked these gigs, and Tracii and Rob said, "We're not going to Seattle. Where are we gonna sleep?"

DD: Yeah, in that shitty van?

MC: Right. You know, these people, Rob and Tracii, came homes in the neighborhood and Axl and Izzy had left their home to live on the streets or live in people's cars or do whatever they can to make it in rock'n'roll. So they were dead serious, and so was Duff. Tracii was serious about music, but not serious enough to do what it takes to make it. So they got in an argument also about possibly a song they were working on. Maybe that [was] part of the argument and either Axl fired Tracii or Tracii quit, or both. Ok, that's basically it. "Fuck you, I quit," "No, fuck you, you're fired." One of those things. And they actually went to see Slash, who just had joined Black Sheep, a band that was playing at the Country Club. This was May 31st. They, Guns N' Roses, had a gig booked June 6 at The Troubadour. It was a Thursday night and then June 8th these gigs that were booked in Seattle. So they got two gigs a week away. No guitar player, no drummer. So they said, "Okay, perfect, we'll take Slash and Steven." But Slash had just joined Black Sheep and Paul Gilbert was in Black Sheep. Black Sheep was around and they had a contract and, you know, it was heavy metal. It wasn't really what Slash was used to, but he pulled it off, no problem, but it wasn't where his heart was at.

DD: Right. And that explains why you had that BC Rich probably, kind of metal-

MC: The warlock.

DD: Warlock, you know?

MC: Yeah. And it was perfect for Black Sheep.  And then so Axl and Izzy and those guys showed up at that gig to try to persuade Slash to come join back with them and, you know, they got these gigs booked. I actually told Slash not to because I didn't think, I mean, I wanted him to do it, but I didn't think it would last. It was personality issues and all kinds of, you know, power, who's in charge and whatever. With the difference was, Slash didn't listen to me. He obviously joined the band, played the gig at The Troubadour June 6 and then went to Seattle. And the thing is, on the way to Seattle, their car broke down and they had hitchhike and they didn't have any food, they didn't have any money and they were stealing, like, carrots and onions from farms to eat. And it was just, that's what they call it the Hell Tour, right? But they did play a good gig at The Troubadour and they did play a good gig up in Seattle. And by the time they got back, was probably 2 weeks later, and they had just suffered. And they were not only a good band of fit musicians that had good gigs, they're now Blood Brothers. They were-

DD: Yeah. that's like their Vietnam.

MC: It solidified the band that little trip. It just kind of made it work. And the first photo shoot they ever took was actually at Canter's in the booth next to the Kibitz room. And they came there for two reasons. A, they were starving. And B, they wanted to do a photo shoot because they booked a gig at the Stardust Ballroom, which is now Home Depot. And-

DD: Oh, is that where that was?

MC: Yeah, yeah. And basically they needed some publicity photos to make flyers and that kind of stuff. If you look at the photos on the cover of Reckless Road, my book-

DD: He has a book out, Reckless Road.

MC: You'll see the look in their face of a young band with fire in their eyes knowing that they got this, they just got this.

DD: Now, you took the picture-

MC: No, I didn't. I didn't take a picture.

DD: Oh, you didn't take that picture?

MC: Yes, I took, you know, tons of... 70% of the photos in my book.  But Jack Lue who actually took that photo was a more skilled photographer and when it came to photo shoots, Slash would use him because he knew how to work the camera. I knew what looked good through the camera but my photos don't always come out.

DD: Right, you're like a buddy of mine, this guy [?]. He was always there taking pictures, but about 70% would be blurry and shit.

MC: Well, I didn't have a blur issue. I had issues with lighting and overexposure. I didn't know how to work the lens. I knew what I wanted to see and when to pull the trigger, a 100%, but I didn't know... So I was afraid if I took the photos for a photo shoot and then I developed them, they don't come out, then what are they gonna do for their flyers? Do they come and get another photo shoot? So Jack knew what he was doing. Jack was the one who taught me how to shoot anyways. He shot bands from, you know, in 1980 to 1986, you know, everything that passed through, and he taught me how to shoot in 1982. And that's when I started shooting Slash. But anyways, anything that was a photo shoot, he always did.

DD: Oh, I got you. Now-

MC: Although I was there.

DD: Yeah, yeah, you were there. Now, what got you into shooting photos? Just hanging out, just for your own thing?

MC: I'm gonna tell you, Eddie Van Halen in April of 1982 was playing the Roxy. It wasn't announced, but Alan Holdsworth was playing.

DD: Oh, I remember that thing.

MC: And we all knew Eddie would be there because Eddie's a big fan of Allen. And the rumor had it that he might do a song. So Jack couldn't make it he gotta work. We already had tickets. He gave me his camera, showed me how to use it, told me to take pictures. I took pictures. I liked the results. So then I went and I stole my sister's Canon 81 that she had in her closet that she wasn't using. And the very two months later Slash played at Fairfax High School in 1982 when he was in the 11th grade, and I photographed that and I was blown away by the results. So I hit the ground running. I never looked back.

DD: I mean, you're basically in the Ground Zero of Guns N' Roses. Your photos are fucking spectacular and your memory is pretty fucking good. I don't know how, you must have not been doing drugs, because-

MC: I was not. I was not doing drugs.

DD: Yeah, but how did you escape that? Because there were some drugs going down in Hollywood. You were just family raised?

MC: I guess everyone else didn't get the memo that drugs are no good for you.

[laughter]

DD: Yeah, because, you know, like, if people want to see his photos, he sells them on eBay. He has a full store and he has a a book out. But these photos, not only are they incredible history of Guns N' Roses, but you have shit on the photos. Like first time they played My Michelle. Like your memory, like you know that shit, like first time Slash played a Les Paul, his new Les Paul.

MC: The history tells the truth because I recorded all those shows, you know, I audio taped them. Some of them videotaped.

DD: Do you have audio of those?

MC: Yeah, I do.

DD: And what do you do with them?

MC: I hoard them.

DD: Man!

MC: No, some day they'll get out when the band's on the same page and want to do a box set or something.

DD: And how were you doing? Board tapes or just a walkman?

MC: Just a walkman.

DD: That's fucking crazy, dude.

MC: Yeah, but so if you listen back to the show, all of a sudden a new song shows up, or you hear Axl say, "This is a new one, we just wrote it today."

DD: Got you, that's [?]-

MC: "This one's for Barbie. This one's called Rocket Queen. It's not much, but it's the best I could do," you know? So you have exactly what they said before they debuted the song, and that's the first time the song turns up. So, you you know, you take photos, you develop them, you saved the flyer from the gig, you saved the Troubadour ticket, so you have all the evidence. Later on, years back, you look back and you piece the puzzle together. And not only that, you can tell by the photos what part of the show it is because of what they're wearing, you know, they come with the leather jacket, then it gets hot after a song, they take it off. Then after another song they take their shirt off, you know, so you can see where they are, in the crowd. I mean, you could see the photos tell pretty much where you are in the set or based on what guitar Slash is using or if he's got a slide on, then you know it's Rocket Queen. You know, there's certain things, you could investigate the photo and figure out what song it is or where they're at. And so that's how I know personally what gigs these songs were debuted at. And by the way, the songs they debuted sound exactly like they do on Appetite For Destruction. The same arrangements, the same guitar solos-

DD: That's like crazy, right? [?]-

MC: Slash would rip one out and, you know, it's his time to throw out a lead, he'd rip one out and it fit. And somehow he'd remember, he didn't, like, tape it and then learn it, he'd remember what he did. And when he got to the gig, he ripped that same one out. And you can still hear it on the record. Sweet Child O' Mine, Paradise City, Welcome to the Jungle, Nightrain - those are all pretty much the same. Rocket Queen, note for note.

DD: What kind of what... what was it like, that band, back then? Like the backstage and stuff, where they bros? Everything was cool? Could you see any kind of shit going down?

MC: I did because see, when Slash and Steven joined the band, okay, that was in June; July 20th, they debuted Welcome to the Jungle, and kind of Slash brought that riff to the band and the band worked on it and that song was super. I mean, it's just superb. You heard it and it was like, "Fuck! Listen to that"-

DD: Yeah, that is a fucking saga!

MC: "That's just cool." Okay, then we hit two months later, it comes September 20th they debut Rocky Queen, I actually was at the rehearsals where they put that together. That just was in some ways better than Jungle even and-

DD: Oh, that's my favorite song on the record.

MC: Yeah, it is.

DD: 100%.

MC: And just the vocal range and the lyrics and just the guitar solo and just the whole feel to it, the base, everything.

DD: It's got some fucking swing in the front. It's got that funk up. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

MC: That's that. That's the Slash part.

DD: So fucking great, you know?

MC: So you have a band where you have, Izzy's like the Rolling Stone guy, Duff is the punk, Slash is the hard rock, Axl is a little bit of everything and Steven's got some funk to make it all, you know-

DD: He's got the swing.

MC: It makes it work. But so you add all that to the mix and you get a piece of everything and it just... Izzy would come up with like the riff to My Michelle. Dah-dah-dah-

DD: He was the king of the band, I thought, did you?

MC: Dah-dah-dah. And then Slash goes Dah-dah-dah! Slash knew to put that second part to it, you know, if Izzy didn't write that, Slash couldn't have fixed it. So Izzy was the backbone of a lot of the lyrics, some of the melodies, and a lot of the riffs or parts of the riffs. And then Slash would come in and just totally rearrange them.

DD: Yeah. Polish them up.

MC: Polish them up and change them around, but if you didn't have Izzy to start it, you wouldn't have that song. But Slash did start, you know, a lot of, like Sweet Child, that was his, you know, little time [?] and you know, maybe the riff in Paradise City or whatever, but still... and the Rocket Queen ones, so you could hear when you know it's Slash. But you know, they debut Paradise City at the Troubadour. Funny thing is, it was L.A. Guns [who was] supposed to play. That show was October 10th. It was a Thursday night, 1985 and they cancelled that afternoon. The Troubadour called, or LA Guns called, Guns N' Roses, said, "Could you fill in for us?" They said, "Sure." They showed up, they didn't take it seriously, there was no flyers for the gig, the tickets said "L.A. Guns". There was, you know, the sign-

DD: Yeah, fuck it, a rehearsal-

MC: - the sign. I'm not even so sure the signs had Guns N' Roses. It might have actually said LA Guns outside. That's how last minute it was. They debuted Paradise City, which wasn't ready, some of the lyrics weren't written, but they were in the midst of working on it, so they thought they give it a shot. But there you go. There's Paradise City. Then you get to December 1st, or November, they have their first sold out show at The Troubadour. November 22nd.

DD: Was that their home club?

MC: Yeah, the Troubadour is pretty much their home club. That was where it all went down. I was helping them out with ads and band magazine. First we did a couple quarter page ads for $288 then we moved on to the full page ad, for, like, you know-

DD: Back then [?]

MC: 1,250 bucks. So yeah, that full page ad got them a sold out gig. Then after that, let's say at the Music Machine, they debuted Nightrain.

DD: Where was the Music Machine? I don't remember that club.

MC: It's a strip club now, on Pico, near Sepulveda.

DD: And it was a rock club?

MC: It was a club-club. It's like Club Lingerie.

DD: I gotcha. It's like that. Whatever goes in there. Gotcha.

MC: Whatever goes in there. And they debuted Nightrain and then two weeks later at another sold out gig at The Troubadour, they debuted My Michelle. Now I'm watching this saying, "This is Led Zeppelin," because there's no song that they wrote that didn't work. Every song they wrote worked and didn't one drop of arranging or producing or rewriting. The vocals were there, the guitar were there, the songwriting was there, the image was there. It just rocked. And I'd have these tapes and I listened to them in my car and I'm just like, "Fuck, if they stay alive," because they were already doing dope. "If they can"-

DD: Were they doing heroin at that time?

MC: Well, Izzy was already doing heroin, you know, when I met him.  And I thought he was a bad influence.

DD: Yeah, they're doing heroin like before, even the EP is out?

MC: Oh yeah, Izzy was a full on junkie with his girlfriend and they were dealing drugs and whatever, but he was the bad seed. I didn't like him for those reasons.

DD: Righ, he was dealing?

MC: Yeah, he was dealing. He was doing it and somehow it rubbed off on Slash and Steven and they were hiding it for me. Izzy wasn't hiding it because he didn't give a shit, but Slash knew that I'd kill him. I mean, Slash was an alcoholic. He would drink 2 bottles a day, but you couldn't stop him from doing that. And that might eventually kill you.

DD: Now, how old are these guys? At the time they're doing dope, like 20?

MC: 20.

DD: Yeah, right, because I remember that 80s, everyone was on dope?

MC: Right. So Slash started doing it and then you could kind of see it in the shows. Like, at the first time I noticed it was at the Roxy gig January 18th of '86. And you could see he was just, he was wasted. And there wasn't on alcohol.

DD: Yeah, it was just-

MC: His playing was sloppy. He was slurring. And then, you know, it just was a mess from there all the way through until, you know, August, they were all doing it, or not, Duff wasn't, but-

DD: Was Axl doing it?

MC: Axl was doing it too, but Axl seemed to be in control, if that sounds any strange, because usually heroin controls you, you don't control it. But he saw the band was swinging out of control around August, right around the time that they wrote Brownstone and Sweet Child, which they debuted August 23rd at the Whiskey, but right after that Axl just stopped cold turkey on heroin. That's it. I'm sure he might have done whatever else was around sometimes, but he wasn't.... He definitely wasn't in like the rest of them were.

DD: Well, he probably was like, "Hey, man, somebody's got to keep this fucker afloat," right?

MC: Yeah. Izzy and Slash were fucking up, they were late for gigs, they would, you know, things were going on-

DD: Just doing dumb junkie shit.

MC: Yeah, they were-

DD: Junkie shit sucks. That's the worst thing about junkies is like, "Okay, cool, get high or whatever" but then it starts fucking up other people's lives and that's when it sucks. Like you miss a gig, you're late or hocking-

MC: Hocking in the equipment.  

DD: Yeah, that kind of shit. Like, junkies always hock their gear and then the day of the gig they go, "My guitars' in hock, bro." And then it's always like, probably Axl goes, "Fuck! I gotta get this guy's guitar out," you know?

MC: No, no. I mean, Slash always kept one guitar no matter what, but still, he hocked everything else that he could, you know? Like any other junkie. But that was that.

DD: Now, when you're hanging with Slash are you going like, "Dude, what are you doing? You're doing junk"?

MC: No, he came to my house a couple of times just to try to clean up and just passed out literally on my bed where your feet would go, you know, like that way on your bed. So my bed got short sheeted, I'm sleeping, you know, he's crossed over my whole bed, just crashed for like a day. But I mean, you know-

DD: What are you going to do? You can't go, "Hey dude, [?]". But like, you guys are bros, right?

MC: I kind of cut them off financially as far as food goes because I wouldn't have been feed them at that point because I thought if I'm gonna feed you, then when you do get money, you're going to buy junk.

DD: That's right.

MC: Instead if I don't feed you, "Fuck you!" When you get money, you're going to have to go to Taco Bell and eat.

DD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But let me ask you a question. You're feeding them, you're kind of like financing them. Is that from Canter's money, like money-

MC: No, no, feeding them is.... I would take them to Tommy's. it's out of my pocket, or Taco Bell or whatever or Canter's, you know? Financing them, not from Canter's. That was my own purse. I lived at home. I was making 300 bucks a week, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it is a lot in 1985. And when you have no bills to pay at all, nothing. That money starts to add up. And you know, I had a few $1000 soon saved up and I just dumped it all into, you know, them.

DD: Did they ever give you money back?

MC: Not really, but sort of. There was two debts going, Slash owed me money from way before that and personal money like when he'd be like literally in England with GN'R in 1986 and the grandmother would call me and say she can't make her rent, so I'd have to give them 500 bucks so they don't get evicted.

DD: In '86 while they're on tour?

MC: They weren't big yet, but they were on tour, they went out to do the three gigs at Marquee, so they didn't have any [?] in their pocket. But so Slash had a debt of like $4,300 in Guns N' Roses and owed me like 3,800 or something like that. And so they made it. They got money. And no, they didn't pay me back. But what happened was in 1989 I was getting married and I was short on money, so I called Slash. I said, "Hey, I need some money to get my wedding so I could pay for the wedding now." So he said, "Well, how much money do I owe you? Forget about the band. That's something different. We'll do that another time. How much do I owe you?" So I told me it was like 4,300. He added a little interest because in those days if you had your money in the bank, you were collecting 8 or 10% interest.

DD: Yeah, real shit.

MC: So he ended up giving me like 8 or $9,000 for that.

DD: And that was fresh off the record deal?

MC: No-

DD: Oh, '89.

MC: They already had it.

DD: Yeah, they had it.

MC: They probably had close to like $800,000 on them each because that's where they were. Even though they had sold enough records to have a few million, it doesn't work like that. You have to wait like six months-

DD: Yeah, you gotta wait for the checks.

MC: It was right around the time they opened up for The Rolling Stones, but anyways.... No, I'm sorry, it was before that, it was March of '89, but anyways. For the band, they did nice things for me. They got me a pinball machine, Axl paid out of his own pocket to fly my wife and I out to like Cleveland, put us up at the Ritz Carlton for four nights. And that didn't come out of the band's pocket, that came out of Axl's pocket. So-

DD: You and Axel became friends?

MC: Oh yeah, we were friends since 1984. Instantly, even before before Guns N' Roses. Because during Hollywood Rose we became friends. That's why he called me to say, "Hey, can you take pictures of L.A. Guns, I'm in L.A. Guns now?" And so I kind of snuck to do it because Slash wouldn't be happy about that because A, they had a falling out and B, Tracii and Slash were always in rival bands in high school. So I'm like helping the enemy kind of a thing. But I liked Axl. I even liked Tracii. So why not? I did it. I didn't tell Slash.

DD: Yeah, yeah. Now, like I asked you before, could you see that there was going to be later some problems down the road?

MC: There was problems even in 1984. So those same type of problems kept coming up. But let me tell you what changed in the music and why it stayed this time, why it worked, two things were different: 1, they took away Steven's double bass drum. They threw one out.

DD: That's great, no double bass.

MC: They took that speed metal out of it, it became more of rock. And then Izzy was the [?], Izzy and Duff really that changed it and the groove changed. That gig at the Troubadour June 6 was just.... While I'm taking these pictures, I'm thinking, "Fuck, that's good music," you could hear it, the vocals are good, the music it's just got, it's just like you got like chills listening to it. And so things were different. Things were different musically. So I knew that the bond of music would hold them together despite some of their personalities or their power struggles or whatever that go with it. The music was enough to... Where everyone had to eat a little shit to, you know, to make... like in a marriage-

DD: You gotta give a little.

MC: Everyone, like a marriage, you don't just get it your way, you gotta give a little and take a little and whatever. So everyone got their way on certain things and everybody ate a little shit up for certain things. So why? Because in the end they knew they all needed each other and they knew they were the perfect fit and they were writing killer material together. They were just the band to be reckoned with.

DD: Yeah, that music, I mean, you can't even believe, we're talking about the biggest, I think, it's the biggest debut seller right now of all time still, it's something like 38 million or something.

MC: Well, I don't know about how many million, I know in the states, it's like 18 million, but worldwide it's hard to tell what it really is. Downloads and this ones and that ones and how to keep track of it. But musically, at that time in 1985, music was dead. You had Ratt and Motley Crue, is pretty much what was going on and keeping things alive, maybe.

DD: Quiet Riot.

MC: Yeah, it just was not what it was in the 70s, all those 70s band, you know, just like, even an Aerosmith in 1985 wasn't really doing much and they just... what they did is they took what they learned musically from what they liked about music, their influences of the Stones and Zeppelin and Nazareth and just all those cool bands, and they made their own version of it. A little piece of all of that, punk bands, and just... it was lightning in a bottle, that was the right five guys in the right place, at the right time. And they just needed each other to make it work.

DD: Now did you go to The Rolling Stones gig when they opened for Stones?

MC: All four of them, ready for this, October 18th, 19th, 21st and 22nd at the Coliseum.

DD: And describe what the trouble was because that was when the big trouble, I think, first started happening, right?

MC: Well, Slash was in a bad drug way and so was Steven and, you know, that gig was kind of an important gig, obviously. It was probably their biggest gig to, well, I shouldn't say their biggest gig because they did play Donington.

DD: Right. But it's a big deal. You're playing for the Stones.

MC: You're opening for the Stones, you're in your hometown. It's your idols. You're doing four nights, it's a big gig.

DD: It was at LA Coliseum, right?

MC: The Coliseum. And Slash was obviously making mistakes, or whatever. And you call Axl's a perfectionist, or whatever you want to call him, but, you know, whatever it was Slash was doing wasn't up to par and you can get away with some things and make it work, but I guess it was enough to really throw Axl over the edge and Axl just basically said, you know, "If certain people in this band don't stop dancing with Mr. Brownstone," or something like that, "this will be my last gig," or something like that. And everyone thought he quit, but it wasn't a quit, it was basically a threat.

DD: A wake up call.

MC: It was a threat. He didn't say, "I quit," he just said, "if they don't stop, then I will quit," or, "this will be our last gig," or I forgot the exact word.

DD: So you're at the gig. You saw him, were they terrible?

MC: Axl speaks his mind. They were not terrible. The thing is, as far as I'm concerned, I was disappointed because all they did was play the Appetite For Destruction songs pretty much and, you know, a couple from Lies, but there was talk that they were gonna Live And Let Die, which is a song you put your tape in and you learned, it takes 2 seconds to learn. It's not something you're writing. I was disappointed that they couldn't punch it out. I mean, they talked about it-

DD: Because Slash was just too loaded?

MC: Well, it could have been Steven, it could have been.... I don't think it was Slash being too loaded and you couldn't learn that cause Slash even loaded could learn the song. It could have had something to do with Steven too. But the fact that they didn't play that song was enough to ruin the gig for me. Honestly, I have tapes of those shows and I don't hear really anything wrong with the guitar playing, but obviously, Axl noticed.

DD: Yeah, later on and also it could have just been something backstage going on, like he's totally not-

MC: He could have been nodding out-

DD: Because you're like, you gotta get the funk up.

MC: Yeah, it could have been a number of things. That's just trauma [?], because Axl is going to speak his mind if something's bothering him, he's going to let you know about it. Right or wrong, right or wrong.

DD: He's like in the top five frontman of all time, don't you think?

MC: A 100%.

DD: Now, when you were watching him early on, did you... you know a lot of talk that he took the moves from the dude from Shark Island.

MC: No, no, there's one move.

DD: There's one move, the snake-

MC: There's one move that he obviously took, but he didn't steal it. He was influenced by it, right? But he had a lot of respect for Richard. What's the name?

DD: Richard Black.

MC: He loved Shark Island. Shark Island was doing like 300 gigs a year and Axl was just blown away that how professional a band could function to make a living. That was their living. They never made it, but they were able to make a living and pay their rent with that band. And Axl just loved how professional they were.

DD: Yeah, they weren't working at Tower Video like Axl and Slash, right?

MC: No, no. But so, we went to a gig, actually, that a Shark Island gig, and Axl and Tracii Guns got up and played-

DD: I saw that at the Troubadour. They played Rock And Roll or something.

MC: Gazarri's.

DD: Gazarri's. Oh yeah.

MC: They played Rock And Roll.

DD: I saw it on YouTube.

MC: That's me. I filmed it.

[laughter]

MC: Anyways, yeah, Richard had that kind of snake thing that he did. And I think more subconsciously, Axl just picked it up. And, you know, you do what you do. If you look at Slash and the way he's leaning, you're going to see Joe Perry. You look at Joe Perry and see the way he's leaning, you're going to see Jeff Beck. You know, and where did Jeff Beck get it from? Maybe he invented it or maybe he saw something in someone else? So it doesn't necessarily mean you've ripped him off.

DD: I understand.

MC: It just means you were influenced by it and you admired it and it comes out. It just comes out. I don't think Axl stood in the mirror and played some music and said, "Well, let me see if I can get that down." It was just something that just, you know, he just felt and did. And Axl has probably at least ten moves that he made-

DD: He does.

MC: And that would just be one of them.

DD: I remember the first time I saw him. I just couldn't believe it. You know, they came out, they played San Francisco at the Stone, and I was like, "What the fuck? This is like, what is this? This band is great!" I got the EP, you know, on vinyl. Uzi Suicide was the label, I guess.

MC: It was actually Geffen but they just-

DD: Yeah, yeah. They just had to fix that. Yeah. But then, I remember when the record came out, I was like, "Oh, they got a couple different singers now." You know what I mean? Because I hadn't seen him do those other songs, like, you know, when he's like, "Turn around, bitch, I got a use for," because he didn't sing like that when I saw him.

MC: That's one of my favorite songs, It's So Easy. But there's four ranges of Axl's vocals on that song and that's, you know.... When I first met Axl he had the high pitch. That's all he had.

DD: That's all I saw.

MC: But that's not true, that's all he used.

DD: Right, right, exactly.

MC: He didn't know what he had. I remember when the band got signed they instantly started giving Axl vocal lessons just to train him so he doesn't blow out his voice or, you know, that kind of...Learn to control it.

DD: That's what they would do back then. They would just send you into lessons.

MC: Wilcox and Santa Monica, there was like those little studios that are there on the South side of the street, I used to actually drive them there sometimes. But he must have picked something up and they taught him how to use that low voice because right after that, you know, I think... I don't recall any songs for his [?] being really used until Sweet Child O' Mine and It's So Easy which came pretty much after those lessons. So they showed him how to, you know, they showed him how to use that voice that he had within him.

DD: It's so radical because it just comes on like, "Whoa! This is a full different dude," and then it actually added so much depth to the band, because before it was like, [high-pitched] "Gotta move to the city!" It was just that kind of that thing all the time.

MC: Right. Actually, My Michelle, it starts off slow and the funny thing is, the first couple times they played it the song was slower. Then he starts out slow and then, you know, jumps in and knocks it out. But that actually showed another one of his voices, you know, just like a regular voice before the screaming voice where, "Your daddy works in porno," you know?

DD: Yeah, I love that, "Now that mum is not around." It's so good, right?

MC: Oh yeah, that's what I'm saying. The first time he's sung it, he sang it low.

DD: Oh, wow.

MC: And then he started screaming it later, after a couple gigs he changed it to double time or whatever you wanna call it. I forgot even what you were asking me.

DD: I was just asking about like how his whole image used.... Did you see it start to become the Axl Rose, you go from Bill-

MC: No, no, no. Okay, Axl was always Axl from the day I met him. If something wasn't going, it was victory or death, just like his tattoo. He'd walk right out. He would, you know, throw something against the wall. You know, discipline was right out the window. Whatever came to his mind, hiis thoughts came out. He didn't hold much back and-

DD: Just a fucking outlaw.

MC: Yeah. So basically people think, "Oh, they got money. Now you can do this and do this, Axl's not going to do this because of that." Axl's is not going to do this because of that even back in 1984. Nothing changed. The only thing that changed is he has more money to get more of what he might want done. Like he wants to make $1,000,000 video and do what he couldn't have done that in 1984. He might have wanted to, but he couldn't physically do it. So the only thing money changed was gave him more physical.... he could reach physical things that he couldn't reach before he had the money, but it didn't change his attitude about how he feels about what people are doing to him or what he has to say about someone that fucks him over in the press. He'd get out there, "Fuck BAM Magazine", "Fuck LA Weekly," you know, before they were [?], "Funk Music Connection." You don't do those things because they're not going to put you in there again, so but Axl spoke his mind because, you know, they either got something wrong or they gave him a bad review or it doesn't have to do with Axl, they could have said, "Your drummer is no good," and that's enough. You poke at Steven, you've poked at Axl.

DD: Yeah, snake [?].

MC: Axl will stick up for the people that are around him. Take one for the team. I mean, one time I was trying to video, you probably saw it YouTube, where they played that acoustic set at The Central.

DD: Oh yeah, yeah. I love that one.

MC: I went to videotape, The Central said I couldn't videotape and Axl said, "Then we're not going on." He didn't actually want a video. He didn't give a shit about the video, but he was supporting me because he knew.

DD: Poking one of his team.

MC: He knew that I had to videotape it because I was the documentarian and I had to do it. It was like an OCD thing. By the way, I am OCD, but not majorly, just enough to make me do the things I really want to do and do them well. But he knew that I had a burning sensation to do that. And so basically he said, "Then we're not going on." Then they said, "Okay, fine, you can videotape." So, you know, Axl will-

DD: Flex muscle.

MC: He'll cut his arm off to help you if that's what it takes.

DD: Do you see him around ever?

MC: Not lately. He's a little bit teed off at me because of, believe it or not, because of the book.

DD: Is that right?

MC: But when I put the book together, I actually asked Axl permission in 1993 and he said, "Yeah, totally." Took me 15 months to do it.

DD: 15 months?

MC: Five hours a day.

DD: '93, you put the book together. When did it come out?

MC: Midnight till 5:00 AM every single night. Book came out in 2007. And here's the problem. When I got done I showed it to him because I put like 2000 photos in there, knowing that he'd probably want some of them out. Honestly, he was fine with all the photos, which then I took about 1000 of them out myself, but I thought if he was going to take a bunch out then I would have this to pick from. But anyways, he loved it. He loved the book at the time, '94, when it was done. But he has so much bad blood with Slash from the break up, the split, you know, just what has been going on all these years and not only Slash. You get Tom Zutaut who Axl feel somehow burned him.

DD: Who's the guy that signed them, right? How did he burn him?

MC: Because in 2001 he was working with the band as a producer or helping producer.

DD: Oh, I remember that.

MC: And maybe he wasn't allowed to have contact with Slash. And then, like, his phone rang and it said Slash and Axl made him throw out the phone. And you know, then something went down from the movie Black Hawk Down. Jungle was gonna be in that movie and Axl wanted a screening. He wanted to see what the movie was about or whatever, before he agreed to put the song in it. So Tom Zutaut arranged some kind of a screening, but there was miscommunication about who else was going to be there, and it didn't go right - and what wasn't Slash - but it was, it wasn't what Axl thought. Maybe the people that were working with Axl, like Beta, who takes care of like-

DD: I know Beta.

MC: -personal business. There was miscommunication and somehow between the two things of Slash talk dealing with... in the contract, he wasn't supposed to be dealing with Slash while he was working with Axl and apparently he was doing that. So that was like a betrayal. And then something went wrong with this Black Hawk Down, which was the final straw. And that was it. So therefore Tom Zutaut was no good anymore and anything he has to say is no good. However, Tom Zutaut signed the band, and if anyone, anyone else would have signed the band, you wouldn't have Appetite For Destruction. Tom Zutaut had basically helped co-produce that record. Even though Mike Clink recorded and the band wrote it, that record wouldn't have been done without Tom Zutaut.

DD: Because he had the proper vision?

MC: He knew what needed to be there, and he oversaw it from a distance and basically produced it. Made sure it got... He's the one that found Mike Clink to record it. He's the one, you know, he produced it without, without anyone realizing that he produced it. And he made sure that songs didn't get rearranged. He made sure that lyrics stayed in, you know? Anyways, long story short, Tom Zutaut speaks in the book. Does he speak bad about Axl? Absolutely not. But Axl doesn't want to hear anything Tom has to say because Tom is no longer good. Same with Slash.

DD: So he basically just cuts things out?

MC: Same with Vicki Hamilton. Vicky Hamilton-

DD: First manager.

MC: -got burned because she borrowed $50,000 from this guy Howie... I don't know if you know Howie from Guitars R Us?

DD: Oh yeah, I know him.

MC: "How are you, Huberman"? I'm sorry, not 50, 30 grand from him or 35 grand from him to put into the band when she was managing the band from January of '86 to April. And Tom knew Vicky because of Mötley Crüe and other bands that she had worked with. And so the fact that Tom got word that Vicky was involved helped the situation. Anyways, Vicky put her heart out, put all this money in the band and the band basically dumped her when they got signed because they wanted Peter Grant. Basically they wanted someone that-

DD: Zeppelin manager?

MC: Well, not-

DD: A guy like that with that kind of power.

MC: Peter Grant is dead, but I believe, I'm sure he was dead by '80.

DD: No, I think he was alive, but he was just a recluse.

MC: Okay, but anyways, they wanted someone that could take them to the next level and they thought Vicky was good just for clubs. You know, getting you signed, getting your club gig sold out, whatever.

DD: Yeah, she was like a Hollywood, like a Sunset Strip mother.

MC: She was a promoter. She knew how to get shit done in Hollywood. They needed Peter Grant, so they dumped her. And then I remember Slash and Axl having the conversation when they dumped her, "Well, when we get money we'll give her 50 grand," you know, settle with her because they didn't have money at the time. Well, they got money. They didn't give her shit.

DD: Wow.

MC: Now I don't know if it's because their lawyers advised them. It's like opening a can of worms because if you give her money, then you're admitting that she managed you, and then she might want more. I mean, it's like kind of a weird-

DD: Yeah, I understand that.

MC: -weird kind of a thing. Unless you did it at the moment right then and there in 1986 and handed her 50 grand and she signed off on it. It would have been cut and clean. But I don't really know the reasons why they didn't pay her back. But they didn't. So she had to sue them and besides that, well she sued them for a million but settled for 50 grand and then after the lawyers took their cut she got her 30, paid Howard back and she ended up even.

DD: So anybody in the book that he doesn't like-

MC: Somewhere in time she said some shit about Axl. She probably is the one that started the rumor that Axl stole the Richard Black moves. She was pissed off. She got left behind and she said some shit that she probably shouldn't have said and that wasn't necessarily true. But it was her opinion. It just wasn't facts. And so anything she has to say, it's no good.

DD: And it's in your book too.

MC: Now, did she say anything bad about Axl? I don't really think so. I gotta look at it again to see what it was. But so my book is full of these people that Axl no longer likes. I'm making a long story long is what's happening.

DD: Yeah, yeah, but it's good stuff.

MC: So basically, any of these people. I mean, he doesn't like these people, he's trying to erase the old band and move on with the new band. It's 2006-2007, he's trying to get his record out that was already done for six years. He's got a new band, he's trying to get the world to forget about the old band and all of a sudden, by chance, my book is coming out because I finally, after all these, I didn't stop looking for a publisher, I just couldn't find one. Nobody wanted to put the book out while the band didn't have a record out.

DD: That's crazy. I mean, it's an epic book.

MC: It just sat in my closet and I bumped into these people by accident that were doing a thing at Canter's with some other book, and they take your book and they put it online.

DD: That's how I found out about it.

MC: It's enhancedbooks.com. They're gone now, but they take, they put your book, page for page, online. There's a key, there's a code in the book that takes you to that page, and you get music from the gigs, you get extra photos, you get video interviews, you get all kinds of cool stuff. So that's why I went with them. That was their first book they put out. They were just people that took books and put them platform on the Internet. So they had no money, they got investors. And they did a book called America's Greatest Delis. They didn't do it. They enhanced the book and that's why they came to Canter's, to interview me. And when I realized what they were doing, I told the guy, "I have a Guns N' Roses book, someday when it comes out, I'm going to be looking for you to enhance it because I have this cool audio and I want to put a little tidbit so you can hear Axl say 'this is the new one, we just wrote it today, this one's for Barbie,' you know, and then you hear maybe 5-10 seconds of this song, not the whole song."

DD: Yeah, right, right.

MC: You get the gist of what things were like. And for that I was just like... I was just like charged. I mean, I was like a beeline. Nothing was going to stop me from getting this out. I talked to some of the people that work with Axl. I didn't see Axl. So I went to see Axl but I never got to see him at the gigs they did at Universal in December 2006. So I told the people he worked with, "Guess what? I got a deal, my book's coming out," and they didn't really say much, they kind of stayed quiet about it. I guess they were afraid to tell Axl because they didn't know how he would react. Maybe because I knew Axl didn't wanna promote the old band. But the same time, we're like best friends and this is my work and it means a lot to me and I put the book together 13 years before that and I finally found someone to put it out. I'm excited. It's history of the band. I mean, when Axl loved the book, Steven and Izzy were gone and there was bad blood, but they were in every picture.

DD: He was okay with them?

MC: He was okay. Steven made a nasty lawsuit with, yet he was okay with all the pictures of Steven.

DD: But Slash?

MC: But Slash.... The hatred he has for Slash-

DD: What does that brew from?

MC: Miscommunications.

DD: I understand, but I mean it is fucking fierce.

MC: "Slash is a liar," he says. Well, let's pick a subject, okay. The signing over the name of the band. Slash and Duff say that Doug Goldstein presented them this contract saying that the band's now Axl's, or the name's Axl's, or I don't know, I didn't read the contract, I don't know what in it, but basically giving the power to Axl. But not necessarily changing the money. I don't think it has to do.... It's just basically who was in charge of the band. They already knew from the past that there have been riots because whatever reason Axl is not going on the stage, or he missed a gig or missed a-

DD: [?] like before a gig.

MC: Well, I don't know enough if it was before, but Slash kind of sold it as if it was before a gig. It was like, "If we don't sign it, he's not going on". Well, yes, Slash said that. Does that mean, "If we don't sign it right now, he's not going on tonight?" I don't even think it was on the day of a gig. It could have been two weeks before a gig, it could have been three months before a gig, or it could have been the night of a gig. It doesn't matter. The truth is Slash and Duff knew that Axl meant business, Axl's never bluffed. But the thing is, Axl didn't say, "If they don't sign that, I'm not going on." Doug Goldstein sold it to them that way. And they knew Axl well enough to know, "Yes, that's probably true." And on top of that, they figured the band wasn't worth anything anyways without them. So what could Axl do with it? He's already getting his way. They didn't want to make $1,000,000 videos, yet they made $1,000,000 videos. They didn't want to play certain songs live, yet they did because Axl wanted them to. So Axl is pretty much getting his way anyways on most of the things, not all the things. Axl didn't want to do the tour in 1991, yet he did the tour, so Axl ate some shit, too. But the thing is, they pretty much knew Axl was getting his way anyways. They made a mistake by signing it, but they did it, they signed it. Had they not signed it, what would have happened is the band would have just simply broken up in 1995 when they couldn't agree on what direction to go in. It would be like Pink Floyd or something. They would have just split and right now Axl would be out touring with other people and the name just wouldn't be Guns N' Roses, it would be something else.

DD: It would be Axl.

MC: But you still wouldn't see Guns N' Roses with Slash and Duff and Axl because they would have fallen apart in 1995. The truth is, because the name is so valuable, they might have eventually worked it out simply because they had to. But now they don't have to, because Axl simply owns the name and, you know, he could make it work with anybody. That's where that is gone. I always figured let him put a record or two out and then let Slash put a few records out and then they get all their shit out of their system and they'd be ready to work together, like Aerosmith did.

DD: Do you think it'll happen?

MC: They won't live long enough for it to happen. If they could live 200 years, it would happen. But see, the thing is, things move slowly. And the way things work and... Slash is ready for that. Izzy is ready for that. Duff is ready for that. Axl is not ready for that because Slash hasn't apologized.

DD: Who plays drums if they get back together?

MC: If you're having an honest reunion, the way I would see it is Steven would be there for the Appetite For Destruction songs, maybe Civil War or something that he played, or Heaven's Door, and then you would see either the drummer Axl has now or Matt or somebody, it doesn't really matter because, you know, Matt really wasn't an original drummer. Yes, he was on Use Your Illusions and yes, he certainly made it work, but they don't necessarily have to have him, but they could.

DD: Axl hates him I thought. He called him an urchin, or something.

MC: I don't know. Somehow the hatred goes more with Slash because... I just gave you one example where there's hundreds of them.

DD: We get it. We get-

MC: There's hundreds of them. But it's not going to happen because Slash is not going to apologize because in Slash's mind, Axl stole the band. You know, he did this or did that. I mean, Slash has a 100 things that he could say... that he could blame on Axl, and Axl has 100 things he could blame on Slash. In the end they wanted different things and that's why it didn't work.

DD: Maybe separate tour buses or separate jets.

MC: No, no, it wouldn't happen now for $10 billion.

DD: Wow.

MC: But it would happen for free-

DD: Yeah, organically.

MC: -if they made up. It's not about the money. It's not like separate buses or separate hotels or separate this or separate that. It's not like, "I'll do it, but I don't want to see him." Axl, it's like victory or death. There's nothing in between. There's no way in hell he would do it as long as he's angry at Slash. Now, if somehow they got like a common therapist, marriage counselor type of person, and worked out that anger and got Axl to see that there actually is two sides to this and no one's really right or wrong, it's just different sides. Because right now he believes Slash is 110% wrong. When he believes that it's a 50-50 deal kind of a thing.

DD: Yeah, there you go.

MC: Or it's a 0-0 deal, meaning it's no one's, really, fault, it had to be. He would, then.... he wouldn't drop the new guys, but he would possibly have a Guns N' Roses gig where you'd have... and maybe the new guys would open, do an hour set, and then the original lineup would come up and finish for an hour, hour and a half. He's got too much.... The new guys have been in longer than the old guys, and he's got loyalty there and he likes them and whatever else so that's fine. I have no problem with that, I like what Axl did after, you know, after the Appetite For Destruction lineup broke up. But, you know, Axl's gonna work good with anybody. It's just not gonna be the same. Put different cooks in the kitchen, the food's gonna taste good, it's not gonna be the same food.

DD: Yeah, you're not gonna have that.

MC: Even if you threw Slash and Izzy and Duff and Axl in the room together, made them write until they come out, whatever they come up with now is not going to be what they came up with in 198-

DD: No, they're like, they're like dads and shit.

MC: They were writing about what was going on-

DD: -street rock.

MC: The lyrics, the music, the anger. I'm sure whatever they do now would be good, but it wouldn't be anything like.... We can't expect people would want Appetite Part 2. It's not gonna happen.

DD: I'm almost happy that doesn't happen. It's like Zeppelin never getting back together, it was always great to me because it's never gonna be what you fucking want it to be, you know? I mean, it's never going to be -72-

MC: I'm gonna tell you right now, if Bonham didn't die, Zeppelin still could have toured for many years and just blew you away. But I don't think they had more records left in them. I think they had, I mean, In Through The Out Door was a huge jump into another direction which I love. But I don't know how much... it just seems like they might, their battery might have just died, songwriting wise. Because how much can you do? Like, look at the Stones. Did they really write any good music anymore? Not really.

DD: Not at all. Not at all.

MC: Their battery burned out. I mean, I'm not saying Guns N' Roses' battery burned out, but I'm just-

DD: I mean, most bands can't even write one fucking classic.

MC: AC/DC.

DD: Yeah, you know what I mean? Up to Back In Black-

MC: What have they done since Back In Black? Three songs?

DD: I actually like the... recently I've been playing Flick Of The Switch record and I'm like, "This fucking record's great!" At the time it's not great and up against stuff, but compared to all the other stuff after that, I understand, you know-

MC: You start to wonder how much involved Bon Scott may have been in Back In Black before he died.

DD: Oh, I think he wrote the record, 100%. The lyrics are completely Bon Scott lyrics. There's no fucking way that Brian Johnson would write Hells bells or Have A Drink On Me.

MC: [?] they have him in the credits. They don't have Bon Scott.

DD: I know, I understand that.

MC: So I don't know-

DD: I understand why they probably would do that. Because they need 100% full welcoming of the new guy. So if you said, "Okay, new guy, but Bon wrote them," they'd be like, "It's still Bon stuff". They wouldn't accept him. If you read that Bon Scott book, which is, who knows, it's probably bullshit, they say the day he died, the fucking, some record company people came in and just took the lyric books right instantly and fucking left. And they were demoing some Back In Black shit.

MC: That could have happened. But I mean, that's pretty much the story-

DD: -of anything. Of fucking anything. You know what I mean? It's all, you gotta have that fucking mythology, you know that thing.

MC: But if I was going to give a guess, really, honestly, if they was to ever to work together, I'd say wouldn't happen before 10 years from now.

DD: Yeah, yeah. And they're gonna be like 60.

MC: Look at the Stones, they're 70.

DD: Yeah, I hear you, but you got to sing, like, [high-pitched] "Welcome to the jungle!" How you gonna do that at 60?

MC: Those are hard-

DD: -hard, right?

MC: Axl wrote a lot of songs that are really... Welcome To The Jungle is a very hard song to sing.

DD: Fuck yeah it is. Yeah, it is. Favorite show that you've ever seen? Not just GN'R, anyone.

MC: That's, that's... God-

DD: That's really hard, but how about top three?

MC: Wow. Okay,  Judas Priest, Long Beach Arena, 1984.

DD: Screaming For Vengeance.

MC: No, no, no, no. 1980.

DD: Oh, which year was that? Oh, '84, Defended-

MC: No, 1980.

DD: Oh, 1980.

MC: British Steel.

DD: Oh, British Steel. Oh, '80, I gotcha. Wow. British Steel.

MC: To me, I was like 15 years old and that was just, I was a big Judas Priest fan and that, you know, it's just at the time for me to just was like [?]

DD: Yeah, I saw him right after that. The Point Of Entry tour. I never forgot it. They opened with Solar Angels. They came out of those boxes that, dah-dah-dah-dah-dum-dah-dah. They had this lighting trust that was spinning like a helicopter that came down and there he was, he still was wearing denim and the leather. Kind of that San Fran gay guy look, which I always liked. And then they were, they open with Solar Angels. I was like, "Fuck!"

MC: There's certain things that grab me and like, I'll say Van Halen and I'm just gonna say.... Just for one song. In like 1984, they've opened up with On Fire. I'm not saying that whole concert was the best concert, but just that one song, to come out and punch you in the face and open up with On Fire and seeing the attack of Eddie, just the way he would come in. That energy, I can still feel that in my stomach. That's like, if I could just, I don't have to pick the whole show, just that song. But there's so many of them. I've seen so many-

DD: Yeah, you and I are like rock fucking freaks.

MC: Black Sabbath Reunion Tour 1995 or 1996, I'm not sure when that was. That could easily be.... You know, Black Sabbath. And as much as I like the Ronnie James Dio Black Sabbath, and I saw Heaven And Hell tour, and that was good too, but still. Black Sabbath with Bill Ward and just that... Black Sabbath! That easily goes up there. But, and there's, you know, I could name a couple Aerosmith gigs, I guess. But for me, a lot of gigs for me did it. If you talk Guns N' Roses, I mean hard to say, maybe the Street Scene just because I saw them win over 5,000 people-

DD: Now, Street Scene was at Ventura? Where was that?

MC: No, no, no.

DD: I mean on Sunset 1st?

MC: No, no, that was on 1st St and Temple. Temple, no-

DD: Oh, Santa Monica?

MC: Temple and Broadway. No, no. In Downtown.

DD: Oh, Downtown.

MC: They were opening up for Social Distortion. They were supposed to go on at 5:30. Guns N' Roses took the stage at 8 not because they were late, because the whole the whole thing-

DD: -was, right.

MC: So the people that were there, the hardcore punk scene that was there for Social Distortion, they're already three hours in that crowd waiting for their band-

DD: Pissed!

MC: And Guns N' Roses come out and they look like the New York Dolls.

DD: Yeah.

MC: Pretty much. And they're throwing beer and hamburgers and spitting and, just like, "Fuck, what is going on here?" You know, like, "Another fucking band?" But like after the second song, they won that crowd and that crowd was just swaying the stage and it's just so much energy. That's that one photo I showed you.

DD: Fucking great photos.

MC: And with Axl's hair-

DD: [?] got the cigarette in the hand. It looks like they're just coming at you.

MC: The only played five songs, but that was an intense moment for me to see them win that crowd.

DD: Yeah. Did you hang out at Comedy Store at all back then?

MC: No.

DD. No? How about Sam Kinison? Any of that?

MC: I see Sam Kinison coming to Canter's a lot. I got maybe once a year to the Comedy Store or, you know, the improv or those kind of things. I wasn't going that often.

DD: Right, right. But did you ever talk to Kinison? Because he was way rock.

MC: Well, yeah, he was. He was. No, but I mean, I've seen him at Canter's. We waved at him, whatever, but I didn't.... Maybe I just had a few words with him, but we didn't really have deep conversation.

DD: Right. Well, man, I'm so glad you came down. Where can we find your book?

MC: Well, you could find my book either at recklessroad.com or Amazon. Or you can go to my eBay store, which is just simply one word. Mark Canter MARCCANTER, if you look for that seller or just in the search look for 'reckless road' and a bunch of them will come up. Mine is the one that the book is 3 dimensional, on the photo, you don't just see the face of the book, you could actually see the side of the book too.

DD: Right. And your photos are fucking amazing.

MC: [?] eBay store. From that listing, you'll see all my photos. Not only GNlR, but I have like, old Metallica and, you know, Scorpions, Judas Priest-

DD: -Jimmy Page. The Arms tour. I saw great Eddie Van Halen playing that. That had to be that Whiskey [?] at Roxy. [?] with the purple guitar, no stripes, nothing.

MC: Yeah, they're very high end digital archival photos and I mean they cost like 35 bucks just to print. The framing alone would cost anybody 200 bucks, 150 to 200. It's got the nice wood frames with the UV glass, non glare and archivable matting. So nothing yellows. It's designed to last 300 years, you know, so they're put together... the galleries selling for 600 bucks.

DD: Well, the photos are beautiful too, and they're like epic, epic concerts. They're not, just, like later, when these bands were all bloated and shitty, you got fucking Priest on the Screaming For Vengeance tour. You got Hetfield on the on the Master of Puppets tour. You've got a Steve Harris from Maiden on the Number Of The Beast tour. You've got GN'R from fucking basically-

MC: The first gig.

DD: [?] from high school all the way up, man.

MC: A lot of the GN'R stuff, their photos that are not only my favorite photos, but something happened at that gig, they gave you the song or something there-

DD: And he writes it on the front.

MC: I write it physically on the border of the photo and I sign each photo on the corner. And like I said, gallery sell them for 600 bucks and my eBay prices range from 149 to 249.

DD: And they're fucking worth it, man.

MC: They take an hour and... at least an hour to frame and by the time you pack them and get the photo and go to the post office, it's 2 hours work together.

DD: You're not getting rich.

MC: No, not at all.

DD: I mean, you're all working on refrigerators today.

MC: Here's what I like, I like going over - and this happened - I went to drop something off at someone's house and I look on their wall and they had one of my photos.

DD: Wow!

MC: And I was like, "Where did you get that?" And they said over the store on Sunset that sells them.

DD: Oh yeah, that one.

MC: [?] and Hollywood? And I was just, like, I couldn't believe my work.... I was so proud to see it there. And that's the whole reason. When you when you die, I don't care if you have $20 million, you can't take it with you. But what you can take with you is your name. And if your art is hanging up on someone's wall.

DD: Oh, God. Yeah, man. Art is where it's at. You know, art's where it's at. These photos in my house, I look at them every day, like that photo of Jimmy Page, right when you came in my house, you went right to the photo and you just said, "That's fucking amazing."

MC: It's a 1000 words. Every photo has a 1000 words. And that's why when I started videotaping the gigs I lost something because even though, yes, I got the audio and the video, people killed to see that-

DD: Yeah, I know, it's just different. It really is different because, you know, video, you really only watch a couple times, a photo I look at every day. I've got a shit load... see all those bootlegs there? That's tons of Zeppelin and Skynyrd and everything at their fucking peaks-

MC: And you know, we don't watch them.

DD: I watch them once and then I'm good. But these photos, man!

MC: But they now have technology just to rip photos off of video. One way I was thinking of doing this is have put it on a projector, like not a TV, but a projector on the wall, shut all the lights off and get a tripod and literally shoot it cause you won't get the lines of resolution like you would on a TV.

DD: Right, right.

MC: And they won't be as sharp but you could still get some really good images and I'm on the verge of of going back and looking back at some videos-

DD: Wow, that'd be radical!

MC: And ripping some photos off of those videos because I think the photo is more powerful than the video.

DD: It really is. It really is. Well, I loved your photos. I want to get some. They blow my mind. And also, please go to Canter's if you are in Hollywood. Go visit it. It's a-

MC: Oh yeah, we sell the book there, too.

DD: They sell the book there-

MC: Autographed copies.

DD: It's a rock'n'roll establishment as much as the Rainbow is, and almost cooler because really hip people go to Canter's right now, and have a drink in the bar and see a band on Tuesday night or comedy on Monday. They do comedy. And they got an incredible jukebox and they got a great fucking sandwich. Thanks for coming down there.

MC: It's all about the cornbeef reuben!

DD: That's right. Now where you got a website or anything other than that?

MC: No, I had one built, but it's not.... It's down right now. But I just use.... I have a Facebook. You can reach me on my Facebook if you want to.

DD: There you go. Mark Canter, Facebook. And also I think you should have a twitter, man. Once a day tweet up a photo?

MC: [?] Twitter and what I do is on an anniversary of a date of a show, I tweet that photo, you know, on every anniversary.

DD: What's your Twitter?

MC: [?] 28 years ago today. I think. Well, I think it's Reckless Road.

DD: Okay, cool.

MC: I think it's Reckless Road. Yeah. Reckless Road at Twitter or... I don't think it's Marc Canter, but I think it's Reckless Road.

DD: Thanks for sharing your stories, man. I mean, it was great. I didn't even know who the fuck you are. I love your book. I was talking to Bill Burr about it today. He's a huge [?], I go, "Yeah, Marc Canter's coming," "Oh, I love that book! I bought it. I love it!" So people have it. And it's a rock'n'roll treasure.

MC: Oh yeah, the book is 50 gigs of GN'R, pretty much theirs first 50 gigs and it starts with Slash in high school and it ends right as they take off in in 1986, basically, the end of 1986 to really March of '87 at the Whisky was the last gig they played. And I give you one tidbit of them at Giant Stadium where they film Paradise City video shoot just because I was there and even there wasn't - it kind of takes you out of the club days - but it just goes with my story, and it was cool-

DD: Yeah, it was really epic, iconic white leather jacket. I mean no one was wearing a white leather jacket.

MC: That's how Axl is different. The band was all given leather, black leather jackets and Axl said, "I want a white one." So you know, Axl is the Mac, you know.

DD: Recently, one of the leather jackets sold on eBay? Did you see that? So he had one and they had made a second.

MC: Oh, a spare one.

DD: A spare one. And it was on eBay, man. I wanted that fucking thing so bad. Someone bought it.

MC: I got Slash's jacket, by the way, that same jacket. And it says Slash on it. He gave it to me because he actually didn't want it. It's like-

DD: You got it framed?

MC: No, I don't have it framed, but it weighs a ton. And it actually, it probably didn't fit him because he's a little bit bigger than me and it fit me okay. But I think the reason why he didn't want it is because he didn't want to be, like, part of the gang where it was "Slash" on his jacket. He'd wear it if it didn't say Slash, but because they put his name on it now he doesn't want it. You know, that's how Slash is, he's very humble about-

DD: You seeing Slash lately?

MC: I saw Slash, like, two months ago. He came into Canter's for lunch.

DD: Tell him I said hi. I want him on my show.

MC: I will.

DD: I love him, man. Old school.

MC: By far the busiest person I know.

DD: Yeah, I hear you. [?]

MC: I seem him like once a year because he's just too busy.

DD: Yeah, yeah.

MC: I don't even see him when he's playing a gig. That's how busy he is.

DD: Well, thanks for coming down, man.

MC: Alright, see you next time.

DD: There he is, Marc Canter's. Thanks for tuning in guys. Let There Be Talk. One of my favorite episodes. That was great, huh? Alright, your friends, guys. Rock'n'roll.

This episode is actually from August 29, not September 29. I changed the date in the first post.

Tah-fucking-da!