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APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

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2015.04.27 - Facebook - Axl Rose's Letter To Indonesian President (& related articles)

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2015.04.27 - Facebook - Axl Rose's Letter To Indonesian President (& related articles) Empty 2015.04.27 - Facebook - Axl Rose's Letter To Indonesian President (& related articles)

Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 14:35

Axl Rose's letter to Indonesian President

April 27, 2015

President Joko Widodo
President of Republic of Indonesia
Istana Merdeka
Jakarta Pusat 10110, Indonesia


Mr. President,

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. In 2012 I and Guns N' Roses were both fortunate and privileged enough to perform in your country in Jakarta for the Indonesian people where we enjoyed and were taken aback by the incredible warmth of the Indonesian fans during our performance and in meeting fans and people there wherever we went. It was a very special and exciting experience we are fortunate to have had and to have as fond memories. I would like to express our sincere thanks to your country for showing us such warm and enthusiastic hospitality.

The main concern of this correspondence is in regard to the impending executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran of the group referred to as the Bali Nine and of Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso. In following their stories in regard to particular comments made in their regard by the Attorney General of Indonesia that their efforts and those of their representatives through the courts "are just buying time" I feel with all due respect compelled to ask why a government official derides the efforts of anyone trying to save their own life or the lives of others through proper legal channels? And if or why the government of Indonesia condones such comments by its officials?

As all three are still alive these are clearly not cases where nothing can or should be done by those who care to do their utmost in efforts to spare them. Under the circumstances it would seem that if they are executed regrettably the Indonesian government becomes the more offensive criminal.

I appeal to you Mr. President, Mr. Joko Widodo to use your power in ways to strengthen international relationships between your country and others, to show your country's strength and allow the world to witness an extraordinary act of humanity and bravery on yours and your country's part.

To show each of us that there can be hope and true redemption in times of hopelessness and despair, that rehabilitation and turning one's life around is not just for one's place in what if any afterlife there may be or one believes in but here on this earth where it can do each of us the most good in this life now. Where true justice is better achieved in not killing, not ending the lives of and not destroying others but instead in this case, this situation, right now in this moment in your hands in sparing the lives of these two able bodied young men who've proven in the Indonesian prison system they are more than capable of being productive and positive contributors to society.

Their crimes were now long ago, their hearts and minds forever changed by their crimes, their trials, the hurt they've caused their loved ones, their countrymen, their rehabilitation, remorse, the lasting and deeply embedded fears of the crushing reality of very real and drastic life and death consequences and their deepest desires to become different and better people and if not to be forgiven to be shown mercy and given the opportunity to prove themselves.

In a world where the bad often outweighs the good and evil and negativity would appear more and more prevalent we need and can use every person choosing to make a difference however that choice came about that we can get, that we can save, that we can salvage and we can spare the lives of including those who have seen and learned from the errors of their ways and in doing so we show the entire world that we are capable of forgiveness and mercy, a much greater sense of courage, strength and humanity and being so much more than that which seeks to overcome and destroy us.

To not do so does not send as much a message of deterrence but rather a cold, cruel and uncaring message of hopelessness and blindness by the powers that be. Please do not be this type of man, this type of individual blinded by rigidity and inflexibility and ignoring your true power and wisdom by not acknowledging true change verified, witnessed and confirmed by virtually all who've been involved with either of these men during their incarceration.

It's true I do not know these men nor have I met them but their story has touched me deeply. I as well as many others could easily have found ourselves in their unfortunate and unarguably self-inflicted position. People make mistakes, sometimes big and horribly regrettable mistakes and sometimes more importantly people learn from their mistakes and make new choices, strive and succeed at true positive change. To not acknowledge and give such change the opportunity to prove it's value would seem in this case a greater crime than those originally committed.

This is clearly not a case of hardened, unrepentant, violent or greed driven killers with no regard for the lives of others. They are not con men lying and faking their behavior over all these years only to return to the people they once were and are no longer.  That these individuals must die purely as an example to others is in my opinion akin to a kidnapper or terrorist killing hostages to make their point and have their demands met. In carrying out their death sentences the example shown here is one of draconian justice where the punishment in this stage of the condemned's lives by virtue of their rehabilitation and genuine remorse over all these years no longer fits the original crime.

To kill these men under these conditions of their profound and proven change for the better seems a barbaric, backward and truly disgraceful act of pride, ego, fear and prejudice, prejudice against your own system and the souls of anyone who has committed what's been deemed a crime from one day making amends and having the opportunity to make things right by how they live their lives and not how they are brutally and with disregard executed.

In the case and impeding execution of Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso executing those on the bottom rungs of the ladder in the chain of drug trafficking or those caught in the web of human trafficking who may not have had the luxury of qualified representation or even proper translators during their trial seems more than unfair and proves what? That a government chooses to condemn those that it would appear few if anyone truly cares about or has ever cared about to begin with? A mother who's quite possibly sincere hopes of making a better life for her and her children have been destroyed in a tragic circumstance and with her execution only makes things worse for her family and the sorrow of those who do care that much greater.

I realize I am no one and no one to get involved with your affairs or those of your government and how this letter reads or anyone other than yourself thinks of it is irrelevant. Only the lives of these three human beings are what's important now. That said I did not speak in jest or empty flattery when I spoke of how I and my organization were affected by the depth of warmth shown us by the Indonesian people during our performance and stay in Jakarta.

I ask you now to show such great depth of humanity and compassion now to these individuals and to deny your bloodlust in your war on drugs and grant clemency to these three individuals and give them a permanent stay of execution and to change the course of your own life and place in both your country's and world history. No other can do what you alone have the power to do and that is the power to show benevolence and mercy where mercy can be truly appreciated and given it's proper respect not only by the condemned but by the entire world and it's many leaders.

Give them a chance to prove you right by living where their deaths at this stage can only prove tragic and by all involved avoidable and unnecessary. You've made your point and struck fear in both the hearts and minds of the condemned and anyone even remotely considering bad choices or already involved in those worlds. Their crimes were not committed on your watch. Life is the only thing important now, not death but life.

Sincerely,

W. Axl Rose


cc:

U.S. Secretary of State, John Kerry

U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia, Ambassador Robert O. Blake Jr.

Ambassador and Permanent Representative of the Republic of Indonesia to the United Nations, His Excellency Mr.Rezlan Ishar Jenie

National Commission on Human Rights of Indonesia (Komnas HAM), Mr. Ifdhal Kasim, Chairman

Ambassador to the United States, Budi Bowoleksono

https://www.facebook.com/notes/10158986299633069/


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Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 14:54

Rolling Stone, April 28, 2015:
----------------------------------------

Read Axl Rose’s Letter to Indonesian President Regarding Bali Nine

Guns N’ Roses singer pleads for clemency for men accused of smuggling drugs who have since been executed

By Kory Grow

Axl Rose sent a letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo yesterday, pleading for clemency for two members of the so-called “Bali Nine” – nine people arrested in 2005 for allegedly planning to smuggle heroin out of Denpasar – and a woman accused of smuggling the drug into the country. Although the woman – Mary Jane Veloso – was spared after a person who claimed to have recruited her as a drug courier surrendered to police, according to The New York Times, the men Rose named in his letter – Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran – were executed. A rep for Rose tells Rolling Stone the singer decided to make his letter public because he was “quite upset with such injustice.”

“I appeal to you Mr. President, Mr. Joko Widodo to use your power…to show your country’s strength and allow the world to witness an extraordinary act of humanity and bravery on yours and your country’s part,” the Guns N’ Roses singer wrote in the letter, which he also sent to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, three ambassadors and the chairman of the National Commission on Human Rights of Indonesia. The full text of the letter is reprinted below.

“Their crimes were now long ago, their hearts and minds forever changed by their crimes,” Rose wrote. “In a world where the bad often outweighs the good and evil and negativity would appear more and more prevalent we need and can use every person choosing to make a difference…. In doing so we show the entire world that we are capable of forgiveness and mercy, a much greater sense of courage, strength and humanity and being so much more than that which seeks to overcome and destroy us.”

The singer wrote that not sparing the prisoners’ lives would be a “cold, cruel and uncaring message of hopelessness,” and he pleaded that Joko not be “blinded by rigidity and inflexibility.” He also called their death sentences “draconian” and the act of killing them “barbaric, backward and truly disgraceful.”

“It’s true I do not know these men nor have I met them but their story has touched me deeply,” Rose wrote. “I as well as many others could easily have found ourselves in their unfortunate and unarguably self-inflicted position. People make mistakes, sometimes big and horribly regrettable mistakes and sometimes more importantly people learn from their mistakes and make new choices, strive and succeed at true positive change. To not acknowledge and give such change the opportunity to prove it’s value would seem in this case a greater crime than those originally committed.”

Specifically regarding Veloso, Rose wrote that “executing those on the bottom rungs of the ladder in the chain of drug trafficking…seems more than unfair.”

“I realize I am no one and no one to get involved with your affairs or those of your government and how this letter reads or anyone other than yourself thinks of it is irrelevant,” Rose wrote. “Only the lives of these three human beings are what’s important now.”

He closed the letter by asking Joko to consider the message he is sending. “You’ve made your point and struck fear in both the hearts and minds of the condemned and anyone even remotely considering bad choices or already involved in those worlds,” Rose wrote, noting that Joko assumed office in 2014, well after the arrests. “Life is the only thing important now, not death but life.”

Despite Rose’s letter, the government executed eight people – seven of whom were foreigners, including Chan and Sukumaran – after midnight on Wednesday, according to the Times. The execution of Veloso, a Philippine citizen, has been postponed, pending her testimony in the case of the woman who gave herself up for her. The paper reports that Joko had said that the country was facing “a national emergency” of drug abuse last October and that he rejected 64 appeals for clemency in death penalty cases for drug convicts.

Lawyers for Chan and Sukumaran said that a judge had offered them a lighter sentence in exchange for money.

[...]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/read-axl-roses-letter-to-indonesian-president-regarding-bali-nine-89030/
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Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 15:00

Billboard, April 28, 2015:
---------------------------------

Read Axl Rose’s Letter to Indonesian President Asking for Execution Pardons

By Colin Stutz

Axl Rose voiced his concerns over Indonesian prisoners sentenced to execution for drug offenses in a lengthy letter to the country's president, Joko Widodo, in advance of the their deaths Wednesday. Thoughtful words from the Guns N’ Roses singer were not, however, enough to get them pardoned.

Rose’s letter is dated April 27 and was posted to Facebook Tuesday, shortly before Australian nationals Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran and six others were killed. In it, he writes, “It’s true I do not know these men nor have I met them but their story has touched me deeply. I as well as many others could easily have found ourselves in their unfortunate and unarguably self-inflicted position.”

Filipina Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso, who Rose also named, however, did manage to win a last-minute reprieve.

Rose continues, “People make mistakes, sometimes big and horribly regrettable mistakes and sometimes more importantly people learn from their mistakes and make new choices, strive and succeed at true positive change. To not acknowledge and give such change the opportunity to prove it’s value would seem in this case a greater crime than those originally committed.”

Guns N’ Roses visited Indonesia in 2012 for a performance in Jakarta that Rose calls a “very special and exciting experience.” He thanks Widodo for the hospitality they received, before asking he pardon Chan, Sukumaran and Veloso.

“That these individuals must die purely as an example to others is in my opinion akin to a kidnapper or terrorist killing hostages to make their point and have their demands met,” he writes. “In carrying out their death sentences the example shown here is one of draconian justice where the punishment in this stage of the condemned’s lives by virtue of their rehabilitation and genuine remorse over all these years no longer fits the original crime.”

[...]

https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/axl-rose-letter-pardon-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran-indonesia-6546294/
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Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 15:03

Blabbermouth, April 28, 2015:
----------------------------------------

Axl Rose Makes Last-Minute Appeal To Indonesia's Heavy Metal-Loving President To Stop Executions

Guns N' Roses singer Axl Rose made a last-minute appeal to Indonesian president Joko Widodo to spare the lives of the two Australians who were sentenced to death in 2006 for trying to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the ringleaders of the so-called Bali Nine group, were arrested at Denpasar airport in April 2005 and were refused clemency by Widodo as part of a hardline stance on the death penalty for convicted drug criminals.

According to ABC, Chan and Sukumaran were executed this morning by firing squad on the Indonesian prison island of Nusakambangan.

Rose's letter to Widodo, which was reportedly delivered before the execution, reads in full:

[...]

Widodo, who has professed love for heavy metal bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Lamb Of God and Napalm Death, was declared the winner of Indonesia's presidential election in July 2014 after receiving 53.13 percent of the vote.

The 53-year-old Widodo, who served as governor of Jakarta from 2012 to 2014, attended Metallica's August 2013 concert in the city — 25 years to the day after the release of the band's fourth album, "…And Justice For All", and more than 20 years after their tumultuous first show in Indonesia.

Back in May 2013, Widodo had to turn over his autographed Metallica bass guitar to the government temporarily, while authorities determined whether the instrument was merely a gift or a violation of ethics rules. Widodo received the bass from Metallica bassist Robert Trujillo, but had to give it up to the state within 30 days, according to laws regarding gifts to state officials.

Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi and Napalm Death frontman Mark "Barney" Greenway also recently wrote separate letters to Widodo, asking the president to spare the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-makes-last-minute-appeal-to-indonesias-heavy-metal-loving-president-to-stop-executions
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Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 15:06

Article in the New York Times regarding the case, April 28, 2015:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indonesia Executes 8, Including 7 Foreigners, Convicted on Drug Charges

By Joe Cochrane

JAKARTA, Indonesia — Defying international condemnation and rejecting 11th-hour pleas for clemency, the Indonesian government executed eight drug convicts after midnight on Wednesday, including seven foreigners.

But the execution of a ninth convict, scheduled to happen at the same time, was unexpectedly postponed at nearly the last minute, according to the Indonesian attorney general’s office.

The executed prisoners, from Australia, Brazil and Nigeria, along with one Indonesian, were shot by police firing squads about 12:25 a.m. local time at a site outside the gates of Pasir Putih prison on the island of Nusa Kambangan off the southern coast of Java, according to the attorney general’s office.

The authorities granted the stay of execution to Mary Jane Veloso, 30, a Philippine citizen, after the Philippine government requested her assistance in a human trafficking case involving a woman who surrendered to the Philippine police on Tuesday.

“An alleged perpetrator of human trafficking gave herself up, and Mary Jane’s testimony is needed,” Tony Spontana, a spokesman for the Indonesian attorney general, wrote in a text message shortly after the executions were carried out. “Eight people were executed, but not Mary Jane,” he wrote.

Ms. Veloso’s family maintains she was duped by a drug syndicate into flying to Indonesia in 2010 with more than five pounds of heroin hidden in a suitcase. President Benigno S. Aquino III of the Philippines had repeatedly appealed for her to be spared. The woman who surrendered to the Philippine police on Tuesday was identified as one of those who had recruited Ms. Veloso.

Relatives and friends of the condemned paid them final visits on Tuesday but were not allowed to witness the executions.

Shortly after midnight Tuesday, mourners in the port town of Cilacap, which is the access point to the prison island, held a vigil for the condemned prisoners that was televised.

The mass execution was the second in Indonesia this year. In January, five foreign drug convicts and one Indonesian convicted of murder were shot by firing squads on the island.

On Saturday, the attorney general’s office gave 72 hours’ notice to the latest group of condemned prisoners, their legal teams and their respective embassies that the executions would be carried out. On Monday, an Australian prisoner, Andrew Chan, married his Indonesian fiancée in a small ceremony at the prison.

A French citizen who was also originally on the list to be executed won a two-week reprieve from the State Administrative Court in Jakarta, the Indonesian capital, which will hear his challenge to a clemency rejection by President Joko Widodo.

Shortly after taking office last October, Mr. Joko declared that Indonesia was facing “a national emergency” of drug abuse, and he rejected 64 clemency appeals from death row drug convicts, most of them foreigners. Saying Indonesia had a right to exercise its drug laws, Mr. Joko’s government rejected international pleas to cancel the executions, including from Ban Ki-moon, secretary general of the United Nations.

The executions have angered some of Indonesia’s largest aid donors, including Australia and the European Union.

Australia announced on Wednesday that it would withdraw its ambassador to Indonesia, and Prime Minister Tony Abbott described the deaths of Mr. Chan and another Australian, Myuran Sukumaran, as a dark moment in Australia’s diplomatic relations with Indonesia.

“These executions are both cruel and unnecessary,” Mr. Abbott said at a news conference in the capital, Canberra.

The foreign minister, Julie Bishop, said the government had worked “up to the last minute” appealing for clemency.

Mr. Abbott and Ms. Bishop said that they did not understate the seriousness of the two men’s crimes but that Mr. Chan and Mr. Sukumaran had spent a decade in prison, had shown remorse and had been rehabilitated. Advocates for the convicts have also argued that the Indonesian courts that sentenced their clients were corrupt.

Lawyers for Mr. Chan, 31, and Mr. Sukumaran, 34, say the judge who handed down the death penalty to the pair had offered a lighter sentence in exchange for money. The pair, members of the so-called Bali Nine who were arrested in 2005 trying to smuggle 18.5 pounds of heroin out of the resort island, admitted guilt but said they had reformed.

The Indonesian wife of one of the Nigerians executed, Silvester Obiekwe Nwolise, 47, also claimed that the judges at his trial had offered a lighter sentence in return for a bribe.

Another Nigerian who was executed did not have a lawyer when he tried to appeal his death sentence, while the Brazilian convict, Rodrigo Gularte, 42, had had schizophrenia and bipolar disorder since he was a teenager, conditions that his lawyers say should have disqualified him from criminal prosecution under Indonesian law.

The office of Brazil’s president, Dilma Rousseff, issued a statement on Tuesday, expressing “deep consternation” at Mr. Gularte’s death.

Michelle Innis contributed reporting from Sydney, Australia, and Vinod Sreeharsha from Rio de Janeiro.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/29/world/asia/indonesia-execution.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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Post by Blackstar Sun 29 May 2022 - 15:30

The Guardian, April 30, 2015:
----------------------------------------

Axl Rose critical of Indonesia after public appeal fails to stop executions

Guns N’ Roses frontman Axl Rose argued the death penalty was out of proportion to the crime and said he was deeply troubled by president Widodo’s actions

Guns N’ Roses frontman Axl Rose has criticised Indonesia for going ahead with the executions of eight people after he publicly appealed to the president for them to be spared.

In a letter to Joko Widodo dated 27 April, Rose pleaded for Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran and Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso of the Philippines to be granted clemency, suggesting that the punishment of the death penalty would exceed the gravity of their crimes.

“Under the circumstances it would seem that if they are executed regrettably the Indonesian government becomes the more offensive criminal,” he wrote.

He also asked Widodo whether he stood by his attorney general’s dismissal of the convicts’ attempts to delay their execution as “just buying time”.

Rose wrote that Widodo granting clemency to the three would strengthen global ties with Indonesia and “allow the world to witness an extraordinary act of humanity and bravery”.

“It’s true I do not know these men nor have I met them but their story has touched me deeply,” he wrote. “I as well as many others could easily have found ourselves in their unfortunate and unarguably self-inflicted position. People make mistakes, sometimes big and horribly regrettable mistakes and sometimes more importantly people learn from their mistakes ...

“To not acknowledge and give such change the opportunity to prove its value would seem in this case a greater crime than those originally committed.”

Signing off W Axl Rose, he asked Widodo to give Chan, Sukumaran and Veloso a permanent stay of execution, “and to change the course of your own life and place in both your country’s and world history”.

“To kill these men under these conditions of their profound and proven change for the better seems a barbaric, backward and truly disgraceful act of pride, ego, fear and prejudice.”

Rose also sent the letter to the US secretary of state John Kerry, the US ambassador to Indonesia, the chairman of Indonesia’s national commission on human rights, the Indonesian representative to the United Nations and the Indonesian ambassador to the United States.

He published the letter in full on the Guns N’ Roses Facebook page on Wednesday, and tweeted the link with the comment: “No word on Indonesian executions. There could still be time …”

Later that day, Chan and Sukumaran were executed, along with six others. Veloso was given a temporary reprieve at the last moment so she could testify in a case in the Philippines against the woman who she says set her up.

Rose responded to the news on Twitter, saying it was “deeply troubling” that Widodo ignored “international outcry”.



He also prayed that Veloso’s reprieve would be permanent. He concluded that “the people of Indonesia deserve better”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/axl-rose-critical-of-indonesia-after-public-appeal-fails-to-stop-executions
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