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APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

Registering is free and easy.

Cheers!
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The unreleased and rumoured songs thread

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The unreleased and rumoured songs thread Empty The unreleased and rumoured songs thread

Post by Soulmonster Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:31 am

In this thread we will compile everything we know about unreleased and rumoured GN'R songs from the "nuGuns" era.

The General
Other names:
First mentioned: 1999 on MTV? (Source?)
Written by:
Comments:



[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...]There was [...] one called 'The General,' (Marco Beltrami, IGN, July 2003).




"Leave Me Alone," "Seven," and "The General" could also feature on the new album. These three A-listed songs were worked on by Marco Beltrami (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at website, June 2005).




One of my favorite songs is this song called 'The General', which is so... it's by far the heaviest metal tune I think I've ever heard Axl do, this slow, grinding riff with these high, piercing vocals, screaming vocals. [...] (Baz, Metal Edge, July 2007).



Quotes from band members:
Well, this comes out on the third record. It relates to [Estranged], it's a trilogy, this goes with this lyrically [Metal Edge, June 2007]
You may have heard parts of it somewhere [Axl's chat on the fan forums, 2008]
The General is a really cool song, it's got an interesting vibe to it. Kinda like an urgy [?] [Eat More Heat! Live Chat, March 2013]
Quick Song
Other names:
First mentioned: 2005 (?)
Written by:

Comments:



'Quick Song', is a rock song with a riff similar to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at Website, 2005).



Zodiac
Other names:
First mentioned: 2005 (?)
Written by:
Comments:




'Zodiac', is described as an electronic, industrial song. (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at Website, 2005)



Thyme
Other names:
First mentioned: 2003 (?)
Written by:
Comments:



[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, July 2003).




"Leave Me Alone," "Seven," and "The General" could also feature on the new album. These three A-listed songs were worked on by Marco Beltrami, especially "Seven," which Marco deems as the best of the three songs. It has also been reported that Marco worked on a fourth track, "Thyme." However, this song was not worked on subsequent to Marco's work in October 2002 (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at website, June 2005).



Ides of March
Other names:
First mentioned: 2005 (?)
Written by:
Comments:



[...] 'Ides of March' was a working title of one of the songs that came from a loop name that Dizzy came up with: I think they kept the name, but it's been years so I'm sure everything has changed by now." (Dave Dominguez, Sp1at, July 2005)



Atlas Shrugged
Other names:
First mentioned: 2005 (?)

Written by:
Comments:



'We were finishing tracks [in October],' confirms Tom [Zutaut]. 'Doing overdubs with Buckethead and Robin Finck and some stuff with Tommy Stinson. I felt we had a well finished version of The Blues, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy. Atlas Shrugged was pretty good.' (Classic Rock, April 2008).




'Atlas Shrugged' is described as being somewhere between 70's glam rock and 'November Rain'. (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at Website 2005).




In addition to these leaked tracks, Classic Rock has heard versions of Rhiad And The Bedouins, Prostitute, Atlas Shrugged (another track featuring the signature guitar of Brian May) and Silkworms.(Classic Rock, July 2007).



Quotes from band members:
Song doesn't have all that much to do with the book other than trying to do what you believe in and a line about shoulders not being wide enough (Axl chats on the forums, December 2008)
Whether Brian May will be featured: Perhaps on an alternate or bits, on that track it has more to do with recording issues and getting the mix to a good level (Axl chats on the forums, December 2008)
I was going to tell a little story about that song, cause right now on my laptop I actually have the old guitar solo that I played for that song when two days before the album was going to be mastered it was like, "Let's see if we can squeeze it unto the album". And I busted out some guitar tracks for it. I just had my own studio. But because the CD could only be 74 minutes max, that's just how long a CD could be, it would have taken it past the limit of what a CD can store, we couldn't put Atlas Shrugged on Chinese Democracy. And it wasn't worth making a two CD album that would just have one song on the other CD. Hopefully on ChiDem2 it's have Atlas Shrugged on there. Interesting song [Eat More Heat! Live Chat, March 2013]
I don't think we ever really finished that song. That would be the kinda thing where we'd have to get into the studio and lay some more tracks and just see where it goes and what state it is in[Axl Rose Fa Clube, April 2014]
Down By The Ocean
Other names:
First mentioned: 2001
Written by: Izzy (?)
Comments:

Quotes from band members:
In '95, Duff and me recorded songs for the band. We made a tape that went nowhere. Then, a couple of months ago I have a message on my answering machine: 'Yo! It's Axl, I need a copy of the songs that you did.' There was one called 'Down by the Ocean' or 'Down by the Sea', they may have used it, I haven't come back to know nothing (Izzy, Popular Magazine, 2001).
Seven
Other names:
First mentioned:
Written by:
Comments:



"[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone.'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, 07/20/03)




"Leave Me Alone," "Seven," and "The General" could also feature on the new album. These three A-listed songs were worked on by Marco Beltrami, especially "Seven," which Marco deems as the best of the three songs. It has also been reported that Marco worked on a fourth track, "Thyme." However, this song was not worked on subsequent to Marco's work in October 2002. (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at website, 06/05)



Quotes from band members:
Brain: ITS AN TIMELESS BALLAD WITH A BLOW YOUR FACE OFF CHORUS AND A SUCK YOUR BALL SACK BRIDGE!!!!![AFD interview, 2010]
Berlin
Other names: Oklahoma
First mentioned: 2005 (?)
Written by:
Comments:



"As the far as the songs go: 'Oklahoma' was pretty much written by the time they got to the studio. Axl wrote that with inspiration from the Oklahoma City bombing (more as a tribute to those who died, if I'm not mistaken). [...] (Dave Dominguez, Sp1at, 02/07/05).




[...] Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures. In addition to the album's almost grungy title track, tentative song titles include 'Catcher in the Rye,' 'I.R.S,' 'The Blues', [...] 'Oklahoma' - heard tonight only as an instrumental, [...] and 'TWAT,' which he says stands for 'there was a time.'" (Rolling Stone, 01/00).



Quotes from band members:
I was sitting in my litigation with my ex-wife, and it was the day after the bombing. We had a break, and I'm sitting with my attorneys with a sort of smile on my face, more like a nervous thing - it was like, 'Forgive me, people, I'm having trouble taking this seriously.' It's just ironic that we're sitting there and this person is spewing all kinds of things and 168 people just got killed. And this person I'm sitting there with, she don't care. Obliterating me is their goal. [/i][Axl Speaks, Rolling Stone, January 2000]
Talking about Riad And The Bedouins: It’s not Oklahoma which later became Berlin and subject to change[Axl's chat on the fan forums, 2008]
Jackie Chan
Other names: Checkmate.
First mentioned:
Written by:

Silkworms
Other names:
First mentioned/played: Played live in 2001.
Written by:

Quotes by band members:
has a lot of guitars, lots of different drum the chorus is gone.[Axl's chat on the fan forums, 2008]
Soul Monster
Other names: Leave Me Alone, Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul.
First mentioned:
Written by:
Comments:



"[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone.'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, 07/20/03).




"Leave Me Alone," "Seven," and "The General" could also feature on the new album. These three A-listed songs were worked on by Marco Beltrami, especially "Seven," which Marco deems as the best of the three songs. It has also been reported that Marco worked on a fourth track, "Thyme." However, this song was not worked on subsequent to Marco's work in October 2002. (Jeff Leeds, Sp1at website, 06/05)



Quotes from band members:

The bridge in "Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul aka The Soul Monster (working title Leave Me Alone)" which will no doubt end up "Soul Monster" [is my favorite song from an unreleased album]. I think it's r most Black Sabbath moment. Sang it on a Christmas eve. Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date. Which having said that I'm sure when it's heard others may disagree but we felt it was a Christmas card of unadulterated venom so to speak. I felt a lot better afterward.[Axl's chat on the fan forums, 2008]

Blood In The Water

Other names:
First mentioned:
Written by:

Quotes from band members:
Yeah, I don't know what Blood In The Water is, I don't think that is real. I think that is just people fucking with tracks and sounds and faking stuff. I don't remember playing on that one or even hearing that one. I think that one is a fake to be honest[Eat More Heat! Live Chat, March 2013]
Better Gone
Other names:
First mentioned:
Written by:

Quotes from band members:
Better Gone? I think that is just some mashup thing [Eat More Heat! Live Chat, March 2013]
Goin' Down
Other names:
First mentioned:
Written by:

Quotes from band members:
Going Down is Chi Dem era, kinda earthy, but let Axwell talk about it when he's ready [Live chat with Bumblefoot, 2012]
As far as Goin' Down, it's more of a slower, medium-paced, acoustic-y kind of...how would I describe that song? It almost reminds me of something that like Bob Dylan could have done in a way. Yeah [Eat More Heat! Live Chat, March 2013]
Not real songs or old titles: Closing In On You, Cock-A-Roach Soup, Friend Or Foe, Hearts Get Killed, No Love Remains, Something Always, Suckerpunched, Zip It, Motormouth and We Were Lying.


Last edited by Soulmonster on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Soulmonster Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:30 pm

Richard being asked about his favourite unreleased song from the next album:

There's some really good stuff. My favourite one is a track, I don't know if it has a title, but it is one that Robin Finck wrote, and it's fantastic. [Being asked if it is Soulmonster]. No, this one hasn't leaked at all. There's a lot that hasn't leaked. Thank god [Intimate workshop with Richard, November 2014].
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Post by Soulmonster Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:04 pm

A worker at Hard Rock Hotel Las Vegas has alluded to a possibly new song (not listed above):

[Axl] told us that he would return again soon for more shows. He has a new song he said he will perform for the first time. He sang it for us all one night and said it was written about his mothers passing. The song was very beautiful and heartfelt. It reminded me of how I felt when my own mother passed away, and I had tears in my eyes once again.

Source: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/210497-hard-rock-employee-allegedly-says-axl-will-debut-new-song-on-next-residency/
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:24 pm

I made this list of confirmed songs from the Chinese Democracy sessions. Those with yellow background have been officially released. The dates correspond to when we know these songs existed for the first time. I have also indicated years when songs were known under different names.

The unreleased and rumoured songs thread Uten_252
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:28 pm

It is absolutely possible that a song like Ides of March is found under a different name in the Locker leaks (dating back to 2000) and that The General, Soul Monster and Seven, which we know from 2002, already existed under different names in the Locker leaks. For instance, it is conceivable that the song Me & My Elvis from the locker leaks morphed into Elvis Prestley and the Monster of Soul which would eventually be renamed to Soul Monster. It is also possible that these songs originated after the locker leaks, like Scraped did.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:52 pm

The first mention of This I Love was in 1992 (that was when the Hit Parader interview was conducted, although published in 1993) and there's further evidence that it was written and demoed during that year.

I also think that Oh My God should date back to 1996-97 (because of the Sid Riggs writing credit - it was also written when Duff and Matt were still in the band.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:59 pm

And Down By The Ocean was first mentioned by Izzy in 2001.
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:20 pm

Blackstar wrote:The first mention of This I Love was in 1992 (that was when the Hit Parader interview was conducted, although published in 1993) and there's further evidence that it was written and demoed during that year.

I also think that Oh My God should date back to 1996-97 (because of the Sid Riggs writing credit - it was also written when Duff and Matt were still in the band.

Yeah, most of the songs date back to earlier years, but I only put them on the first year when we have a source on them existing.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:26 pm

Soulmonster wrote:Yeah, most of the songs date back to earlier years, but I only put them on the first year when we have a source on them existing.
In that case, regarding Oklahoma, the first time fans heard about its existence was in January 2000 (Axl's interview with Rolling Stone). Then came the information from Dominguez that the song already existed before the new band entered the studio in 1998.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:10 pm

I suppose same goes for TWAT, Catcher, The Blues and I.R.S. (also first mentioned in Axl's Rolling Stone interview that was released in January 2000, although took place in November 1999). Not sure when Prostitute was first mentioned, but definitely not as early as in 1999.

Ides Of March was first mentioned in 2005.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:32 pm

Blackstar wrote:Not sure when Prostitute was first mentioned, but definitely not as early as in 1999.
Well, that's wrong. It was in fact first mentioned in 1999 (in the Spin article)
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:42 pm

Blackstar wrote:I suppose same goes for TWAT, Catcher, The Blues and I.R.S. (also first mentioned in Axl's Rolling Stone interview that was released in January 2000, although took place in November 1999). Not sure when Prostitute was first mentioned, but definitely not as early as in 1999.

Ides Of March was first mentioned in 2005.

Yes, it was Dave Dominguez talking about the songs being almost finished when he worked with the band back in 1998. I consider that proof that the song existed back then.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:48 pm

Soulmonster wrote:Yes, it was Dave Dominguez talking about the songs being almost finished when he worked with the band back in 1998. I consider that proof that the song existed back then.
I agree.

But then, regarding Oh My God, shouldn't Axl's quote about it being rejected by Duff and Matt, as well as the Sid Riggs writing credit, consist enough proof that it existed in 1996-97?
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:00 pm

Blackstar wrote:
Soulmonster wrote:Yes, it was Dave Dominguez talking about the songs being almost finished when he worked with the band back in 1998. I consider that proof that the song existed back then.

I agree.

But then, regarding Oh My God, shouldn't Axl's quote about it being rejected by Duff and Matt, as well as the Sid Riggs writing credit, consist enough proof that it existed in 1996-97?

Yeah, I agree.

Anyway, I made a new version of the list where I also try to indicate periods when the songs were worked on (grey gradient) prior to the first guaranteed date when we know they existed, at least for those songs where we have such information:

The unreleased and rumoured songs thread Uten_253

But now I hate this because if my intention is to indicate when a song was worked on, it isn't enough to just indicate this up to the point where it was first mentioned - we know many of these songs when worked on repeatedly over many years, like Absurd which was worked on during Covid-19, too.

I gonna think more about what I actually want to display and maybe work on the list again tomorrow. I will probably make some changes.
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Post by Twinaleblood Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:00 pm

Soulmonster wrote:
I gonna think more about what I actually want to display and maybe work on the list again tomorrow. I will probably make some changes.

According to what Tommy supposedly said to Rick Dunsford, the real title for "Tommy Demo #1" is supposed to be "Ten Percenter". Did you not include that on purpose, because we don't have a direct quote from Tommy? I guess the title is probably legit, after all.
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:35 pm

A new version. The names are when the song was first mentioned publicly. Then for some songs it is also indicated when we know the song was worked on. So for Oh My God, although we heard about it first in 1999, it is indicated that work started on it at least back in 1996. Similarly, for Berlin, although we heard about it first in 1998 (as Oklahoma), we know its origins went back to the Oklahoma bombing in 1995. And so on.

I have also indicated when we first heard that a song had changed its name. And finally, dates of official release is indicated in yellow.

The unreleased and rumoured songs thread Uten_254
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Post by Soulmonster Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:36 pm

Twinaleblood wrote:
Soulmonster wrote:
I gonna think more about what I actually want to display and maybe work on the list again tomorrow. I will probably make some changes.


According to what Tommy supposedly said to Rick Dunsford, the real title for "Tommy Demo #1" is supposed to be "Ten Percenter". Did you not include that on purpose, because we don't have a direct quote from Tommy? I guess the title is probably legit, after all.

You know, I actually thought about that but forgot to include it, mostly because I haven't researched that time period yet so it wasn't readily available to me. That being said, I will not include information from leakers and hoarders and "insiders", only from people in the band, news media, or people connected to the band or recordings.
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:42 pm

"Ten Percenter" has been registered by Tommy on ASCAP (as "10%ER") along with Going Down, so that's confirmation and evidence.
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Post by Twinaleblood Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:43 pm

Blackstar wrote:"Ten Percenter" has been registered by Tommy on ASCAP (as "10%ER") along with Going Down, so that's confirmation and evidence.

Oh, I didn't know that, great catch!
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:47 pm

Twinaleblood wrote:
Oh, I didn't know that, great catch!



https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/917433854
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Post by Twinaleblood Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:54 pm

He must have registered that only recently, because I remember looking at GNR entries on ascap a few times in the past and I never noticed that. Maybe it has to do with the fact he would like "to buy those songs back".
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Post by Blackstar Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:56 pm

Twinaleblood wrote:He must have registered that only recently, because I remember looking at GNR entries on ascap a few times in the past and I never noticed that. Maybe it has to do with the fact he would like "to buy those songs back".
Yes, it seems he has bought these songs back.

He registered them at some point last year.
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Post by Twinaleblood Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:59 pm

And this raises another question: are these the only ones he registered because they have leaked or because they are the only unused songs solely written by him?
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Post by Soulmonster Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:38 am

Added 10%ER:

The unreleased and rumoured songs thread Songs11
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