XX. Notes

Blackstar wrote:I have found this ad in L.A. Times, March 23, 1986 for a benefit show at Music Machine on the same night (March 23):


Do we know anything about it?

One thing is certain. It was during their time with Vicky that they all, Izzy and Axl specifically, wrote to Kim Fowley. He was a Hollywood legend-mogul-producer-singer-songwriter-scene-maker, whose six foot five inch, towering presence had been a Hollywood staple since the early Sunset Boulevard days when the Whisky A Go-Go hosted Buffalo Springfield, the Doors, Love, the Byrds, and others. Kim was a survivor, if nothing else and he was a professional of impeccably high standards whose modus operandi in business has offended as many as it has pleased. In the first letter from Guns N’ Roses (who then called themselves Guns & Roses), the band displays a sense of purpose, individuality, and image remarkably sophisticated for a band still so young. I’ve seen the first bio Jim Morrison wrote for the Doors and gave to Elektra Records to be used when their first LP shipped, and it played a crucial role in establishing their image. The legitimacy of that image is important in a world where image is almost half the battle.

Guns N’ Roses displayed a similarly articulate and developed sense of themselves. It appears obvious these guys believed in themselves, fought against overwhelming odds, and together formed a vision that their collective faith coalesced into reality.

In the letter, Izzy and Axl make a point of stressing their street-level credibility and their rebellious, untamed attitudes, already aware of the potential value of such ingredients in the public arena. As early as this, they claim authenticity and loyalty to the self as a cherished ideal, along with raw power and a commitment to their collective muse. The formation of the group is credited to the embryonic nucleus of Rose and Stradlin, a partnership founded in youth in Lafayette, Indiana, and carried over to the dog-eat-dog streets of Hollywood. With the addition of the team of Slash and Adler who had also been knocking around together for quite a while, and then the recruitment of Duff McKagan, the rock ’n’ roll family was complete.

The immediate primacy and objectivity of the letter demonstrates a perspicaciousness rare and surprising in a band still so fresh. Grandiose on the one hand and endearingly naive on the other, Izzy and Axl focus in on their future and with the energy of faith behind that vision they proceed to make their dreams happen. Their vision of the band is clear and confident; they allow no room for doubt. After confessing the music is composed and performed primarily for selfish reasons, they go on to display the “Us against Them” mentality that they would continue to develop and nurture to such an angry effect on their debut LP. They announce to the world that they are out to please only themselves and anyone that doesn’t understand or agree is an outsider and a potential antagonist. You’re either with them or against them. The letter they wrote to Fowley displays an incredibly developed sense of objective awareness as they announce that they will not hesitate to be themselves and that they refuse to compromise their values or beliefs for anyone anywhere anytime.

Already we can see the complete commitment and dedication to the band that in later interviews and articles became such an important characteristic of the band members. After announcing his intention of giving everything he has to give, Axl proclaims his variation of Hamlet, to do or die, to sacrifice every last iota of energy and life he can wring out of the meat and muscle and sinew of his body in exchange for the trancendent glory that only rock ’n’ roll can offer him. Complete devotion. His destiny is sealed the moment he begins. It’s already too late to turn back.

Axl ended the material that would soon form the basis of the first official bio with: “I’ll be damned if it isn’t everything we can give or there’s no point in existing.”

After needlessly defending the crudity of the piece, Izzy scrawled in handwriting at the bottom of the page: “Dramatic, eh?”

By then, there were lots of requests for publicity photos of Guns N’ Roses and press-ready biographies of the band. Vicky duly sent out a 1985 shot of the band by Richard Lue and the following band bio:

GUNS N’ ROSES

Wild abandon & streetwise composure are encompassed by the music of the savvy & sexy guns n’ roses. rising from the hollywood underground, the band has confidence, raw power, and the authenticity of actually surviving the streets. A power based in the hard knocks depths of reality let [sic] the music of the band exude confidence in themselves and their music.

Izzy Stradlin and W. Axl Rose played together and separately for ten years before forming guns n’ roses in the spring of 1985. Soon added Were the duo of Slash and Steven Adler, who had worked together for over five years. Duff McKagan on bass completed the gang. His previous experience in guitar, drums, and vocals cements his place in the band.

Guns n’ roses is the combination of individuals and personalities that each member has been striving for since their long ago start in rock & roll. Perhaps selfish in the fact that they please themselves first, this enables the band to play music they truly believe in. Guns n’ roses runs on the pure strength of emotion and feeling as can be seen in their highly visual and energetic performances. They aren’t afraid to be themselves and refuse to compromise their stance and beliefs for anyone or anything. They’ve paid their debt to society and are ready to take on the world. . . .

In the words of Axl Rose:

“We’ll be damned if it isn’t everything we can give, or there’s no point in existing.”

The band then played at the Starwood Club on January 26.

Blackstar wrote:JANUARY-MARCH 1986 - INTEREST FROM RECORD LABELS
https://www.a-4-d.com/t3967-the-history-of-guns-n-roses-in-their-own-words#14820

The band then played at the Starwood Club on January 26.

How do we know about this show? I see there's an incomplete setlist for it
https://www.a-4-d.com/t1011-1986-01-26-starwood-club-la-usa
but I haven't been able to find any sources (books, gnrontour, setlist.fm) about it.

And there is this article from 2016 in L.A. Weekly
https://www.laweekly.com/the-20-best-l-a-music-venues-that-are-gone-but-not-forgotten/
that says that Starwood was closed in 1981.

Soulmonster wrote:
Hmm, normally I would think I had the info from gnrontour, but as you say it isn't listed there. That sort of leaves two possibilities, it is a mistake from me or I have the info from another source. But then that source should be included somewhere, like in the show page.

For now I will just make a note in the history section and the show page that we need a source for this show. I will not remove it just yet.

A week after they fled Sunset and Gardner, on my twenty-first birthday, G N’ R played at the Timbers in Glendora. The club was nice enough to card me for the first time in years. As I thanked security for carding me, I saw Vicky Hamilton working the guest list and tabulating the head count to keep the club honest at pay time.

Blackstar wrote:
Gnrontour lists another show on Feb. 1, 1986 at the Troubadour, without any further information. I see that on setlist.fm there is a full setlist for that show
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/guns-n-roses/1986/troubadour-west-hollywood-ca-7b977208.html
but I don't trust setlist.fm much for the early shows, because I've seen some clearly wrongly included shows there.

On @troccoli's site, though, there is an ad and a ticket for a show on the same date (Feb. 1, 1986) at Timbers Ballroom:

http://www.troccolitm.com/020186Flyer.JPG
http://www.troccolitm.com/020186FlyerAlt.JPG

Raz Cue also mentions a show at the Timbers Ballroom in his biography:

A week after they fled Sunset and Gardner, on my twenty-first birthday, G N’ R played at the Timbers in Glendora. The club was nice enough to card me for the first time in years. As I thanked security for carding me, I saw Vicky Hamilton working the guest list and tabulating the head count to keep the club honest at pay time.

Earlier in the book he had placed the band's fleeing from Gardner "about a week after the Roxy show," so around January 25, which matches with the February 1 date. (Also in the beginning of the book he says that he was born in February.)

So I think that there was a show on February 1, 1986, and most likely at Timbers Ballroom and not at the Troubadour.

Blackstar wrote:I saw this here:

https://www.instagram.com/scenestersdoc/



Do we know anything about this show? I've never heard of it before. Not sure if was 1985 or 1986, but I'd say 1985.

Soulmonster wrote:

Blackstar wrote:I saw this here:
Do we know anything about this show? I've never heard of it before. Not sure if was 1985 or 1986, but I'd say 1985.

No, never heard of it. What is the name of the venue?

Blackstar wrote:Nicky/Nickey Beat had provided the band their first rehearsal space. He was a drummer in various bands. In 1985, instead of Guns N' Roses, he joined L.A. Guns as Nickey Alexander (his real name).

Soulmonster wrote:

Blackstar wrote:I saw this here:

https://www.instagram.com/scenestersdoc/



Do we know anything about this show? I've never heard of it before. Not sure if was 1985 or 1986, but I'd say 1985.

No, never heard of it. What is the name of the venue?

It was no bed of roses for Debbie and Jennie of Lipstick Fix, who found themselves hauled off to the slammer when their show with Guns and Roses at The Galaxy was smashed up by our friendly Hollywood Vice last Thursday. Also locked away were several other scenesters, the beer (which was given away free) and the door money. Fortunately, the band’s equipment was spared at this haul. This pestering factor has made the Galaxy less than desirable to all the other club entrepreneurs, who have hastily moved their scenes to other venues. Those who’ll suffer most from this boycott will be the neighborhood car thieves, who’ve had a bonanza stripping cars while the owners were inside breaking the law by drinking beer.

Soulmonster wrote:
Then the question is why Canter isn't mentioning it, but I don't think he is infallible, despite what many think. He is only a man and could have missed the odd show. It could also be that the show was stopped before GN'R hit the stage.

Soulmonster wrote:Could you ask him? I am not on Instagram.

Blackstar wrote:

Soulmonster wrote:Could you ask him? I am not on Instagram.

I'm not either. He's on facebook (Desi Benjamin). I have a facebook account, but only for reading - I haven't posted anything. I'm not into using social media

Blackstar wrote:I found this on March 18, 1982:

Blackstar wrote:From the book Scenesters: Music, Mayhem & Melrose Ave. 1985-1990 by Desi Benjamin:

Jenny Price: Little known fact...I was responsible for getting Guns n’ Roses their first offer for a record deal, months before any other labels were interested.  Axl and Duff were friends of mine and I worked for Greenworld Records and Distribution in Torrance for a short time when I was about 18 years old.
This was around the same time that I started my club, Lipstick Fixx.  Greenworld was a distributor who had a small label which initially put out the first Mötley Crüe and Great White records, before they were picked up by the majors.  I coordinated a meeting between Guns and the owner Steve Boudreau, and label managers Peter Heur and Dean Naleway (both Peter and Dean eventually left Greenworld to start Triple X Records and manage Jane’s Addiction).  Axl and Duff came to the Torrance offices for the meeting. They did not end up accepting the deal because Boudreau was only offering a pressing and distribution deal of their recordings (their demo which included “Welcome to the Jungle”) and would not pay to re-record their material. It was the worst business decision of his life.  Greenworld went out of business a year later.

Paul Mars Black: Well in 1985, we did one of the first L.A. Guns shows at Lipstick Fixx with Guns n' Roses. I remember it was just out of a little hole-in-the-wall club.  I think I had everybody sitting down Indian style on the floor for a while, while we did our set.  I can't remember, I think there was a pole right in the middle of the stage.

Joseph Brooks (owner of Vinyl Fetish and deejay at the Cathouse) is also interviewed in the book.

Soulmonster wrote:

Blackstar wrote:From the book Scenesters: Music, Mayhem & Melrose Ave. 1985-1990 by Desi Benjamin:

Jenny Price: Little known fact...I was responsible for getting Guns n’ Roses their first offer for a record deal, months before any other labels were interested.  Axl and Duff were friends of mine and I worked for Greenworld Records and Distribution in Torrance for a short time when I was about 18 years old.
This was around the same time that I started my club, Lipstick Fixx.  Greenworld was a distributor who had a small label which initially put out the first Mötley Crüe and Great White records, before they were picked up by the majors.  I coordinated a meeting between Guns and the owner Steve Boudreau, and label managers Peter Heur and Dean Naleway (both Peter and Dean eventually left Greenworld to start Triple X Records and manage Jane’s Addiction).  Axl and Duff came to the Torrance offices for the meeting. They did not end up accepting the deal because Boudreau was only offering a pressing and distribution deal of their recordings (their demo which included “Welcome to the Jungle”) and would not pay to re-record their material. It was the worst business decision of his life.  Greenworld went out of business a year later.

Paul Mars Black: Well in 1985, we did one of the first L.A. Guns shows at Lipstick Fixx with Guns n' Roses. I remember it was just out of a little hole-in-the-wall club.  I think I had everybody sitting down Indian style on the floor for a while, while we did our set.  I can't remember, I think there was a pole right in the middle of the stage.

Joseph Brooks (owner of Vinyl Fetish and deejay at the Cathouse) is also interviewed in the book.

You have the book? Cause I talked to Desi Benjamin yesterday asking if it was a book, but he just sent me links to Amazon for buying the DVD. When I asked if it was only a DVD and not a book, he answered, "DVD book and streaming". I tried to stream it but it was unavailable in my country. I could buy the DVD but it is such a hassle to watch DVDs. Streaming would be better. In any case, I am surprised you seem to have the book.

I asked him about the possible show with Lipstick Fixx at Galaxy. He said it was early on but that he wasn't there. So he couldn't really confirm the venue or what happened there (whether GN'R actually played before the concert was shot down by vice). Desi thought the poster of the gig with Lipstick Fixx and GN'R had been for a show at Raji's - but he was unsure. He also confirmed there was a club called Galaxy and that the images on the cover of the DVD was taken from there. The cover's got images of GN'R, Jane's Addiction, and RHCP. So if he is right, GN'R did play a show at the Galaxy.

I also took the opportunity to ask about the recording of Used To Love Her from the Whisky. He has on his YT account so I asked if he had taped it (hoping he might have more than just that song), but he said he didn't know who taped it but that it was "his" show - so maybe he promoted it?

Anyway, don't think this was very helpful. Too long ago. But nice fellow.