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APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

Registering is free and easy.

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Izzy Stradlin' trivia you probably didn't know before

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Post by Izzy Dutch Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:43 am

Did you know... that there was a 2nd Ju Ju Hounds album recorded in 1993?
They did it in two sessions, first half of the album in November 1993 and the second half in December 1993.

At first they went to London, recording at The Matrix Studios in London with Bill Price at the desk (he recorded with The Clash there aswell). They they moved base and went tot Trinidad, to record at Caribbean Sound Basin.

All in all it can be puzzled from various interviews that this mysterious red tape was from the 1st sessions in November in London:

www.discogs.com/release/13850373-Izzy-Stradlin-The-Ju-Ju-Hounds-Bill-Price-Rough-Mixes-November-1993-DAT

1 Memphis (3/11)
2 Riding Home (9/11)
3 Hard One (4/11)
4 Skeleton (9/11)
5 Tooling Away (9/11)
6 Got To Say (8/11)
7 Goodnight (2/11)
8 Bonus Track (6/11)


For the history of this famous 'red tape' check out this Jimmy Ashurst interview:

www.melodylane.it/NEWSITO/index.php/799-ashhurst

MELODY LANE: Truth or legend…a  second album was being recorded after the world tour…?
JIMMY ASHHURST: Yes, as a matter of fact we almost finished  the second album.  We’d been doing it in TRINIDAD. We started the album recording in London, because we wanted to go to the studio that THE CLASH  recorded in, we were big THE CLASH fans . And we were working with BILL PRICE,  the same engineer that worked with THE CLASH, in the WESSEX STUDIOS. Then we picked up and moved the operations to TRINIDAD, in the Caribbean, and we brought BILL PRICE with us and we lived in the studio for several months. At a certain point, most of the basic tracks were finished and CHARLIE, our drummer, had gone home and RICK RICHARDS had gone home too, while I’d remained in the studio with IZZY because I had to sing back-up  vocals on a few of the songs. So I went to the next Island, TOBAGO,to go scuba-diving for a week-end while IZZY was staying in the studio to record lead vocals. I called the next day just to know how it was going and BILL PRICE said “Man, he left!”. So I went back there and basically IZZY completely disappeared. And the album disappeared too…That’s all…

MELODY LANE: And what about the recordings…?
JIMMY ASHHURST: I didn’t hear anything about it ever again, I asked for some of the tracks to BILL PRICE a few years after that, if there was anything from that recordings, but he said:  “I can’t send them  to you because they belong to the record company” and I said “Bill come on!...I wrote some of those songs!” but he said “No, sorry I can’t  do it”. But then two weeks later, I received the cassette in the mail-box.

MELODY LANE: If I’m not wrong, two of those songs were included in IZZY’s second solo album
JIMMY ASHHURST: Yes…There were 8 or 9 tracks…Two of those tracks came finally on his album “117°”, that was released several years later. The other ones…are lost…ah ah ah. For years ,in the interviews, people’s been asking the truth about the fact that there was more music from the band . Everyone around IZZY’s world, the record company guys and everybody always said “No, there isn’t!”.Even the producer of the first album said: “ No, there’s nothing else”. If you go and read the old interviews  I’m the only one who’s always said “Yeah, there’s almost a whole album and it’s gone!”

MELODY LANE: So what about the rest of the tracks?
JIMMY ASHHURST: IZZY would own them, so I can’t legally release them- nor would I do so anyway unless we’d all agreed to it. They weren’t finished, they were rough mixes of basic tracks. Having said that, I don’t know if IZZY knows that rough board mixes still exist. I hear there has very recently been some noise about a lost cassette having turned up on the internet, though. It didn’t come from me, and I know it didn’t come from him, but a third cassette was apparently sent from Trinidad to the record company. Happy hunting

MELODY LANE: ..But now I can…Did you ever play GUNS’N’ROSES songs?
JIMMY ASHHURST:  We used to play only one song from GUNS called GOODNIGHT TONIGHT; but I think it was a sort of jam that was not released on any album or single…a very old one…


So yeah, the song 'Goodnight Tonight' is the same GN'R song that was played live in '86 by GN'R and was Izzy's song, which he also played live with the JJH in '92 and he actually recorded for the 2nd JJH album in '93.

Now, this red tape is only from the London sessions, because it has been mentioned in interviews that 'Memphis' and 'Got To Say' (both later on appeared the 117 degrees album) where recorded in London. And written right behind the songtitles there are the November dates mentioned where they were probably mixed, or perhaps recorded. So I think Jimmy has mixed up the London tape with the Trinidad sessions, he's mentioning Trinidad but the red tape are the recordings of the London sessions which were before Trinidad.

And the song 'Good Enough' on the 117 degrees album that one was recorded in Trinidad (and isn't on the 'red tape'):

https://izzystradlin.wixsite.com/unofficial/copy-of-guns-roses-bad-boys-give-i-24

Good Enough": This was recorded in Trinidad. I felt like everything in my life was fine, but I was getting a lot of flak, a lot of judgement calls on my life from other people. And I thought, "Wait a minute, man. This shit's GOOD ENOUGH for me! I'm happy with it. Fuck you!"

www.twitter.com/Badapple73/status/1358826441404780545/photo/1
There you can find the remaining titles, they were also mentioned in November in interviews so therefore I assume that those other titles were recorded in Trinidad (which no tape exists of that we know).

Most likely the idea in the end was that they would collect all the songs from both the London and Trinidad sessions and pick out the 10 favorites and release them on the 2nd album.

Looking further at the tracklist from this 'red tape', Duff fans will probably notice another song 'Riding Home'. Years ago I read online somewhere in a Beautiful Disease interview that Duff was told by his A&R man that he needed 2 'mid paced' songs for that 1999 album he had just recorded. But, since Duff had recorded so many songs for that album, he was 'dry of ideas' and asked Izzy for two songs. Izzy then gave him 'Put You Back' and a b-side called 'Ridin' Home'. Ofcourse, Put You Back appeared on the album and Ridin Home did not. Until... the 1999 album got shelved by the label and Duff decided to go on tour and record the songs live, which became 'Duff Mckagan's Loaded - Episode 1999:Live' album. www.discogs.com/release/10473615-Duff-Mckagans-Loaded-Episode-1999Live and the song 'Ridin' Home' found it's way to the world. His wife Susan McKagan wrote and published a book a few years ago, it comes with a Vinyl single with fiction band name 'The Westies' and basically it's also this song, Ridin' Home from the Loaded album.

I've always loved the Ridin' Home song, it's obviously about the GN'R breakup and probably that's why Duff dismissed it on Beautiful Disease 'cause he had several other GN'R breakup songs on there. But I love the Loaded version. I imagine the JJH version from 1993 would be even cooler with Rick Richards on slide guitar.

Also another fun fact, did you know that Izzy's 'Put You Back' song on Duff's 1999 Beautiful Disease album is about the same topic as the song 'Needles' on Izzy's 1999 album 'Ride On'? Pretty much, they both mentions the same person/hitchhiker in the lyrics. Izzy wrote them both, it's also in the sime time frame.
www.heretodaygonetohell.com/releases/duff/beautiful-disease/put-you-back.html

"Put You Back"
(Duff Mckagan, Izzy Stradlin)
"Izzy and I wrote this one. He rides his motorcycle everywhere;
he just goes out into the desert with extra gas and water and supplies.
He finds these trails that go to Mexico from Arizona, and he's gone for days.
So he found a guy out there, a Mexican who was trying to go to L.A.
The guy was lost; he was going north-east. Izzy put him on his bike,
gave him a sandwich and water, and took him up to the highway.
He gave him some money and said, "You wanna go that way --
you wanna go west, dude." I hope he made it." - Duff

You walked the ocean
You crossed the sea
Sands of the desert
Sands beneath your feet

(chorus)

They wanna put ya back down
They wanna put ya back down
They wanna put ya back down
They're not gonna let you through

Time turns to hours
Days into weeks
Stars seem to guide him
Into the east

(chorus)

(bridge)

Did you leave anyone
Your mother must be missin' her son
Is anybody waitin' for you
Or is this somethin' new?
Live without money
Live without home
Die without water
slowly, lost I

(chorus)

And check out the lyrics of 'Needles': www.heretodaygonetohell.com/releases/izzy/ride-on/needles.html

"Needles"
There ain't nothin' goin'
on out in Needles
there ain't nothin' goin' on there
that's why I go
there ain't nothin' goin' on
in Needles
check in my hotel
I'm layin' low
I get no calls when I go
out ta Needles
yeah I sleep into the morning
til I'm through
then I get up
and I take my motorcycle
I ride off out there
and I feel good
Yeah I take off out
there and I feel good
no complications
no complications
no complications
when you're here
so complicated
so complicated
so complicated
when you're there
found a person out walkin'
toward Needles
he'd been walkin' for five days
and man it showed
gave him water
and then asked him
where he came from
"Mi pueblo esta en Mexico"
he said he came up from Mexico
we gave him a ride up
to the next town
through the desert was
30 miles or more
said he'd take him a
greyhound bus to la
I hope he made it
I'll never know
I'll bet he did though
yeah I hope so
there ain't nothin' goin' on
in Needles
there ain't nothin' goin' on there
that's why I go
there ain't nothin' goin' on
in Needles
I hope he made it
I'll never know
I'll bet he did though
yea I hope so

Anyways, back on track, here below are some quotes and puzzles from the 2nd JJH album:
https://izzystradlin.wixsite.com/unofficial/copy-of-guns-roses-bad-boys-give-i-24

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw6yPWlmvYI&t=938s
Check out this interview starting from the 8:56 mark. This took place september 1993, so the goal was to track the first half of the 2nd album in november, and the 2nd half in december or january. Izzy likes recording around november/december/january I've discovered, also with most of his other albums. He also mentioned in 2002 that he liked working around the holidays. Miami for example was done right before Christmas 2004, then january 2005 they recorded some extra songs. Like A Dog same thing, Chop Away and Hammerhead where recorded after the initial sessions. He likes to go record, then take a short break and then record some more with fresh new material that the first session inspired. Here are some more quotes in regards to the 2nd album:

Now the foursome are writing songs for their second studio album.

"The next record will be in the same style as the first - if it ain't broke, why fix it? We haven't booked any studio time yet, but I imagine we'll be in recording during December. I like working over the holiday period. So far we have three numbers ready: 'Never Used To Be', 'Guitars And Guns' and 'Toolin' Away'."  The Ju Ju Hounds were along for the first two stops, laying down tracks at London's Matrix studios, where the Sex Pistols recorded Never Mind the Bullocks, and trinidad's Caribbean Sound Basin. "We did nine songs at Matrix, which is this old church that's been converted into a studio, and ten in Trinidad. That was a killer studio, too. It's a state-of-the-art-complex, with the same rates you'd pay in the U.S., but there you get fresh papaya for breakfast and see iguanas running around."

Then there's also the sessions in Trinidad. From other interviews in magazine articles there are several more songtitles mentioned so likely they were recorded in December at the Trinidad sessions.

"Gotta Say": We recorded that in London. It's about people who bullshit you, and seeing right through them. Someone I knew was doing that, being a real pain in the ass. That was kind of a moody time. But, you know, it passes. Eddie [Ashworth] plays mandolin on there.

"Memphis": This was written by Chuck Berry. He was a true innovator, and he's got such an incredible history. I love his stuff. It's never too heavy. You never put on a Chuck Berry record and go, "God, this is depressing." It's all fun.

In the Rick Richards YouTube/podcast interview with Appetite For Distortion from November 2021 he's mentioning how 'Memphis' was also recorded in London. Which correspons with the 'red tape', being as both 'Got To Say' and 'Memphis' are on there. You can listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu3VGvMHKOE&t=1911s

And here... is a short clip from one of the presumably recorded in Trinidad songs called 'Motivated'. Which debuted live in '93 on a Japanse radio show. On acoustics: www.twitter.com/DutchIzzy/status/1458709602753724417

In other album related news, did you know that one of the two reggae tracks on his 2001 'River' album originated from the 2nd JJH album era?  There's even a version which has Slash on lead guitar, probably this one is from the 1999 or 2001 sessions with Taz Bentley on drums, with Duff and Slash (they also recorded an album in late 2001/early 2002 with this lineup, which led people to believe that his 2002 'On Down The Road' album was that album with Slash and Duff. Which wasn't, it was just a new solo album which was also recorded in that period - quite a busy time for Izzy.

https://izzystradlin.wixsite.com/unofficial/copy-of-guns-roses-bad-boys-give-i-29 (Izzy's reggae on River)
www.mtv.com/news/o1zr7e/slash-duff-izzy-reunite-three-out-of-five-aint-bad (the 2001/2002 recordings).
www.slashparadise.com/media/interviews-slash/return-to-the-jungle-guitar-one-june-2002.pdf (same as above, see page 81)

If you take a look at the 2 reggae cuts 'Shall Walk' and Run-In'. The first one is the reggae version of the track 'Underground' which is track #7 on the album. Seems to me this was more the reggae jam of it. The other track 'Run-In' I've always believed that this track was indeed that 'previously recorded song originating from the JJH era where there's also a version with Slash on guitar'. But that was the rock version of it, for River he turned it into reggae. By the way, those two reggae tracks only feature Taz on drums and Izzy playing everything else on it. He was left with Taz in the studio and was in a reggae mood after listening tot Peter Tosh a lot during that time he mentioned.

Furthermore about the 'River' 2001 album, the first half of the album was done with producer Eddie Asworth in LA. But then Izzy wanted to continue and record more songs in Seattle only Eddie couldn't make it cause of other recording commitments so Izzy finished the album in Seattle with another producer (Shawn Burman). Originally the keys on the album would be by Joey Huffman (Rick Richards friend) only he released after the release that the disk he send to Izzy with his keyboard recordings recorded in Georgia weren't on that master disk, nothing was on it! He made a mistake. However Izzy never got back to him about his and obviously called Ian McLagan to record keys and organ for the album. Which he did, with Eddie Asworth, in one day in a studio in Austin, TX.

Another song which originated from the JJh era was an isntrumental called 'Grunt' released on the 117 degrees album.
It's his favorite on that album and was also worked on for years, dating back to the JJH era he mentioned somewhere.


Last edited by Izzy Dutch on Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:33 am; edited 14 times in total
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Post by Izzy Dutch Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:44 am

I have various links to the sources/interviews mentioned above, however since I'm a new member I'm not allowed to post links etc. for the first 7 days it says. So they'll follow in a week orso

See links above, you just have to replace the '@' with an '.'


Last edited by Izzy Dutch on Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Blackstar Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:15 am

Great information, thank you @Izzy Dutch! (and welcome).

I knew about the second Ju Ju Hounds album and the tape with the Bill Price demos, but I'm not sure I knew about the sessions in London (only about the ones in Trinidad).

I have fixed the issue with the links, so you can post active links now. Smile
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Post by Izzy Dutch Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:23 am

Ah many thanks! I will correct hem Very Happy
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Post by Blackstar Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:40 am

Did you run the izzyontour site, too?
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Post by Izzy Dutch Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:43 am

No that would be my Polish friend, Michael. He was also involved with Beenafix and Chopaway, along with Markus (Methanol) and Will (ChopAway) and Nick (BadApple) and many others.

Basically, Markus ran the Beenafix site/forum, Will ran the ChopAway site/forum and Michael the IzzyOnTour site. I was just an active forum member of them all and did a few Q&A interviews with Izzy, JT etc. which were also placed on those sites and forums. It was like a little gang, community with all these people. I was a student back then with lot's of free time. It was great times. I was always trying to find Izzy information about his writing and recording, what kind of equipment he used etc. etc. it was an obsession ha.

Back in 2006 Will (ChopAway) got an invitation for backstage pass at one of the UK GN'R gigs with Izzy guesting, backstage pass arranged by Izzy as he was his 'webguy' as Izzy would call him. Will invited me to join along but I couldn't go... man I've always regretted that, talking about a big missed oppurtinity!
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Post by Soulmonster Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:25 am

Wow, lots of great information in this thread, thank you @Izzy Dutch !
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Post by ludurigan Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:12 pm

amazing!!

sfhaetdj
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