APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
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APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

Registering is free and easy.

Cheers!
SoulMonster

Brooklyn. And other States.

+3
Uli
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Post by Soulmonster Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Can you prove any of this or is it just speculation?
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Post by Uli Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:15 pm

Soulmonster wrote:Can you prove any of this or is it just speculation?



This sounds like you understood at least half of it. I didn't, quite frankly. Maybe, if I did the "research" via other forums, I might know what he's on about; I would've done this a few years back, but nowadays I can't be bothered... Angel

The only "part" I think I understood, is that he believes that Universal do hold the rights to the recordings Axl & Co. (whoever was in GN'R at that point in time) have made in the past (i.e. after 1995).
In my opinion, this might be correct! It's been said years ago that Axl owed UMG for the year(s) spent in recording studio(s). I'd often wondered what the company thought about C.D. and its sales (it must've sold some more copies, e.g. when the band played stadiums in South America between 2009 and 2014) and whether they wanted "more", e.g. another album  ("two for the price of one") - or whether maybe Axl had to "pay back" via the money he earned with touring?
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Post by Soulmonster Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:53 am

Uli wrote:The only "part" I think I understood, is that he believes that Universal do hold the rights to the recordings Axl & Co. (whoever was in GN'R at that point in time) have made in the past (i.e. after 1995).
In my opinion, this might be correct! It's been said years ago that Axl owed UMG for the year(s) spent in recording studio(s). I'd often wondered what the company thought about C.D. and its sales (it must've sold some more copies, e.g. when the band played stadiums in South America between 2009 and 2014) and whether they wanted "more", e.g. another album  ("two for the price of one") - or whether maybe Axl had to "pay back" via the money he earned with touring?

It is not implausible to me at all that Universal owes the music created in that period. But it is still just speculation.
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Post by Uli Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:28 am

Yeah, of course, it is speculation, same as happens in other forums and so on...

Which is why this sentence from our Hanson brothers groupie here leaves me puzzled:

FromHell wrote:To this day, the most-frequented site in Forumland permits, despite definitive knowledge to the contrary, the perpetual posting of threads positing the propaganda that Red and his live-ins dictate the if, when and whether any such table scrap recordings, fictional or otherwise, to which Universal holds master rights, are packaged and released into the marketplace.  

Why is it your friggin' business what other forums do permit or not? Zip It
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Post by Blackstar Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:38 am

Geffen/Interscope/Universal stopped financing the album in February 2004, according to this 2005 article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/arts/music/the-most-expensive-album-never-made.html

At the same time, the label released the Greatest Hits album, presumably as a way to recover the losses, planning also to release a follow-up later. Axl, Slash and Duff fought jointly against the GH release using the active 1992 partnership, but they lost in court.

After the label cut off the financing of CD, Axl signed a deal with Sanctuary Group (whose CEO was his then manager, Merck Mercuriades), with which he leased his publishing (songwriting) rights from the back catalogue and unreleased material for 20 years, in exchange for an amount estimated between $10 and $19 million:
http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=64091#p64091
So Axl's publishing company, Black Frog, was affiliated to Sanctuary. The rest of the details of the deal are unknown, for example the percentage of Axl's publishing royalties that would go to Sanctuary; but it seems, from later legal actions, that Axl continued owning the copyright of the compositions or part of it.
The deal was considered to be beneficial for both parties, since it would allow Axl to self-finance the album and Sanctuary, which wasn't doing well, to invigorate its budget with the expected revenues from Axl's publishing royalties.
Sanctuary, however, didn't make it, and 2 years after the deal, in 2007, it was sold to Universal; so Axl's publishing deal passed to Universal, which, of course, also happened to be his record label.
Universal later (in 2012) sold Sanctuary to BMG, but it seems that it kept Axl's deal (Black Frog appears now as a subsidiary of Universal).
In short, unless the terms of the publishing deal changed in the way, at least a big part of Axl's mechanical and sync royalties (i.e. his royalties as a composer/songwriter) go to Universal until 2025, and that includes future releases during this period.
But this, I believe, doesn't have anything to do with owning the master rights of the recordings (not the compositions). I think it's common practice in record deals for the label to keep the master rights of the recording for at least a period of time, so maybe it was in Axl's record deal anyway. And, as far as GnR goes, Universal still owns even the master rights of the recording of Appetite. Duff said in a recent interview (Let There Be Talk podcast) that the band/partnership will be able to obtain full control of the Appetite recordings in 2022, i.e. after 35 years:
2018.09.17 - Let There Be Talk podcast - Interview with Duff [AUDIO]

Irrespective of all the above: it's speculation, but I believe that with the Best Buy deal for CD, Universal recovered its losses from the financing of the album until 2004, so Axl doesn't owe them anything in that regard.
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Post by Soulmonster Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:08 am

Blackstar wrote:

Irrespective of all the above: it's speculation, but I believe that with the Best Buy deal for CD, Universal recovered its losses from the financing of the album until 2004, so Axl doesn't owe them anything in that regard.

This is what I have been thinking, too. But I would appreciate contrary evidence.
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Post by Uli Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:40 pm

Thanks @Blackstar for a reasonable post here!

What's wrong with this thread here, starts already with the title: "Brooklyn. And other States", what's that supposed to mean??? Doh!
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Post by Soulmonster Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:47 pm

It's all a bit confusing, yes Doh!
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Post by Blackstar Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:58 pm

FromHell wrote:
Lighting tinder on an American forum earlier this summer, and, consequently, predicting both the Izzy wannabe in Brooklyn and Slash going full-on Boss to, among other matters, sneer at the 'contract,' 'gag order,' er, I mean 'NDA' propagandists, I read--in full--your attack on my boi, Mr. Urchin, on a censoring forum in summer 2017.  I likewise was directed to, and skimmed, your subsequent repeated referencing of Mr. Urchin's posts in an effort to appear both knowledgeable and authoritative.  Your vilification of Mr. Urchin in summer of 2017, considering your reliance upon the indisputable factual underpinning of his posts, is nothing short of stupefying.  That, however, is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.  I'd, incidentally, refer you to him to resolve the egregious conduct.  



Now I remember. I remember that the former (?) "fellow poster" on mygnr didn't reply to the points of my "attack".
You two seem to  have a lot in common. Like drivel hidden behind loads of tropes and legal jargon; and a delusion of grandeur (real or just for the purpose of trolling - indifferent) that everybody references you or plagiarises you. Unless you wrote the NY Times article - but no, it's too coherent and readable.
I couldn't have referenced or plagiarised the posts of either of you even if I wanted to, because I can't plagiarise ramblings. What I post relies only on research and common sense.

Anyway, back on topic (so to speak). So Universal, as the record company, owns the master rights of Axl's recordings, which is basically what happens with every artist that has a contract with a record company. OK.

Oh and there are quite a few GnR performances still on youtube. Try here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guns+n+roses+full+show


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Post by Uli Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:32 am

Hm, that video says it's about truckers and rants... didn't watch it, seems to have no relevance at all to GNR or Brooklyn or this topic... Embarassed

Blackstar wrote:Like drivel hidden behind loads of tropes and legal jargon

Ah okay, maybe that's why I didn't really get to the meaning behind sentences like:
It's but a matter of continuation from points and locations prior, provided, of course, those who could/should market in Forum indeed do so.
Doh!

Maybe it's just me (no native speaker and quite dumb, frankly), but I can imagine other forums closing topics for drivel like that and "unrelated" video links.
File that under "not my problem", though. Carefree

Blackstar wrote:Anyway, back on topic (so to speak). So Universal, as the record company, owns the master rights of Axl's recordings, which is basically what happens with every artist that has a contract with a record company. OK.

Yeah, that's what I understood too (so far). Cool
As for the rest... I have no idea why youtube videos get taken down, maybe it's Universal/Vivendi, maybe someone else who looks into that, how should I know?

Speculation? Isn't that what many forums and their discussions live from? Of course if one takes it too far (trolling), thread might get closed/deleted. Again: not my problem. I don't really care much about other forums and their "politics".
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Post by Johan Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:59 am

So, is this over yet?

#conspiracy #tinfoilhats
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Post by Soulmonster Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Johan wrote:So, is this over yet?

#conspiracy #tinfoilhats

It was!! Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Blackstar Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:51 pm

Bleh... Again: What I do - and what we do here on A4D - is called research and has nothing to do with "authority of legal [or any other] concepts."
The views is not something of concern here, as is not of concern if you have run out of platforms/forums to post whatever it is you post.
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Post by Uli Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:39 pm

Huh? I don't understand anything here. OK, I understand some English words, but together they don't make much sense - or is it just me? Blanco
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Post by Uli Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:34 am

FromHell wrote:
Me either.  I'm American, so I speak and write American.

Alright, thanks, there is the problem.

I've always loved how (some) Americans think they're the "salt of the earth".  Razz

FromHell wrote:I direct my writing at three specific set of eyes, so I am well aware that not all understand my posts.

Alright, thanks again. I doubt they will see these posts (this forum isn't super-busy), but who knows...
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