Re: The "Work on new record" thread

[Blackstar]

Full Perhaps soundcheck from Glasgow. Credit to "Caedo" at mygnrforum for the recording:

[Soulmonster]

The General is rumoured to be on setlists used on this tour, and could thus be debuted at any show.

I was looking into the history of the song. I believe the name came up already back in 2002 as a rumoured song title, and Axl confirmed it was real in 2009. I don't have the source for the rumour back in 2002, anyone know where it came from? I think I remember it was about Tommy, since he had the nickname of the General back then, if so, it sounds like the title was just a placeholder, yet here we are, with the title unchanged.

Could it be one of the songs from the locker leaks only with another name? The locker leaks contain songs recorded in 1999-2001. It is of course entirely possible they made a new song after the locker leaks, but maybe more realistic that it is one of the song sketches from the locker leaks but with a new name.

[Blackstar]

The General is rumoured to be on setlists used on this tour, and could thus be debuted at any show.
I was looking into the history of the song. I believe the name came up already back in 2002 as a rumoured song title, and Axl confirmed it was real in 2009. I don't have the source for the rumour back in 2002, anyone know where it came from? I think I remember it was about Tommy, since he had the nickname of the General back then, if so, it sounds like the title was just a placeholder, yet here we are, with the title unchanged.

Could it be one of the songs from the locker leaks only with another name? The locker leaks contain songs recorded in 1999-2001. It is of course entirely possible they made a new song after the locker leaks, but maybe more realistic that it is one of the song sketches from the locker leaks but with a new name.

I think the first mention of the song was by Marco Beltrami in 2002:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4902-2002-10-17-marco-beltrami-website-orchestral-arrangements-on-new-gn-r-album

The rumour that it was about Tommy was probably fan speculation. Later Brain clarified that the song was named after General Tso's Chicken that he and Buckethead used to order when working in the studio (I think it was in one of the Appetite for Distortion podcasts). Considering the origins of the name (clearly a joke working title) I, too, was expecting that the song would have been renamed by now.

[Blackstar]

There is (Beltrami's, I guess) orchestral arrangement that was played over the PA as intro at concerts in 2006 (?). There's also a very bad quality audio clip (with a lot of crowd noise) recorded by a fan who attended an after party in Vienna in 2010 where a recorded version of the song was played. Neither of these sound like anything from the locker leaks, although some fans thought there was some similarity with the guitar melody of State of Grace.

[Soulmonster]

The General is rumoured to be on setlists used on this tour, and could thus be debuted at any show.
I was looking into the history of the song. I believe the name came up already back in 2002 as a rumoured song title, and Axl confirmed it was real in 2009. I don't have the source for the rumour back in 2002, anyone know where it came from? I think I remember it was about Tommy, since he had the nickname of the General back then, if so, it sounds like the title was just a placeholder, yet here we are, with the title unchanged.

Could it be one of the songs from the locker leaks only with another name? The locker leaks contain songs recorded in 1999-2001. It is of course entirely possible they made a new song after the locker leaks, but maybe more realistic that it is one of the song sketches from the locker leaks but with a new name.

I think the first mention of the song was by Marco Beltrami in 2002:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4902-2002-10-17-marco-beltrami-website-orchestral-arrangements-on-new-gn-r-album

The rumour that it was about Tommy was probably fan speculation. Later Brain clarified that the song was named after General Tso's Chicken that he and Buckethead used to order when working in the studio (I think it was in one of the Appetite for Distortion podcasts). Considering the origins of the name (clearly a joke working title) I, too, was expecting that the song would have been renamed by now.

Another interesting thing, Beltrami mentions four songs by name:

"A song called "Seven," which is the one that I did the most work on, I actually did some writing on. There was one called "Thyme," one called "The General," one called "Leave Me Alone.""

Seven, Thyme, The General and Leave Me Alone. Only Thyme exists under that name in the Locker leaks. Either Seven, The General and Leave Me Alone are new songs, or they are Locker songs that have been renamed. In either case, this indicates that significant mount of work took place after the Locker leak recordings and before Beltrami's comments in 2003. If he former is the case, that the band created new songs from scratch in this period, isn't it likely that some of these would not contain orchestrations, and hence that Beltrami would not be aware of them? If so, these are songs we know next to nothing about.

[Soulmonster]

The General is rumoured to be on setlists used on this tour, and could thus be debuted at any show.
I was looking into the history of the song. I believe the name came up already back in 2002 as a rumoured song title, and Axl confirmed it was real in 2009. I don't have the source for the rumour back in 2002, anyone know where it came from? I think I remember it was about Tommy, since he had the nickname of the General back then, if so, it sounds like the title was just a placeholder, yet here we are, with the title unchanged.

Could it be one of the songs from the locker leaks only with another name? The locker leaks contain songs recorded in 1999-2001. It is of course entirely possible they made a new song after the locker leaks, but maybe more realistic that it is one of the song sketches from the locker leaks but with a new name.

I think the first mention of the song was by Marco Beltrami in 2002:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4902-2002-10-17-marco-beltrami-website-orchestral-arrangements-on-new-gn-r-album

The rumour that it was about Tommy was probably fan speculation. Later Brain clarified that the song was named after General Tso's Chicken that he and Buckethead used to order when working in the studio (I think it was in one of the Appetite for Distortion podcasts). Considering the origins of the name (clearly a joke working title) I, too, was expecting that the song would have been renamed by now.

Maybe Axl was inspired by the working title and wrote some lyrics upon that theme. Or maybe it is an instrumental.

[Blackstar]

Maybe Axl was inspired by the working title and wrote some lyrics upon that theme. Or maybe it is an instrumental.

The cell phone recording has vocals. Sebastian Bach also mentioned vocals when he talked about the song in 2007:
https://www.a-4-d.com/t3130p330-xx-notes#22463

[Soulmonster]

Regarding working titles and final titles. It wouldn't be the first time Axl decided to stick with a working title name and then wrote lyrics around that name, he did the same for Shankler's Revenge and I'm Sorry, which presumably were working titles given to these songs that Bucket and Brain worked on. Or, perhaps Axl helped give these songs their working titles based on lyrical ideas he had at the time?

[Soulmonster]

From a video on FB, Tom Mayhue answering fan questions:

"And I know the band's gonna start working on new music - they've got a bunch of stuff recorded already - there will be new Guns N' Roses music very soon. In fact, I think they're trying to get a single out, like any day now. So you may hear something very, very soon."

[Blackstar]

[Blackstar]

From the third clip:

Tom Mayhue: "It's a lot more kind of Appetite orientated. They had a lot of songs - when the band went in originally and recorded Appetite for Destruction, I think they recorded, like, 29 songs. So there's a bunch of... a lot of music that was left over that didn't make the first record. I think there's only 11 songs on the first record".

I wonder what he's referring to here. New music? Something else? It's also an odd thing to say, since, as far as we know, what was left off Appetite was used on UYI.

[Soulmonster]

From the third clip:

Tom Mayhue: "It's a lot more kind of Appetite orientated. They had a lot of songs - when the band went in originally and recorded Appetite for Destruction, I think they recorded, like, 29 songs. So there's a bunch of... a lot of music that was left over that didn't make the first record. I think there's only 11 songs on the first record".

I wonder what he's referring to here. New music? Something else? It's also an odd thing to say, since, as far as we know, what was left off Appetite was used on UYI.

I think he is talking about CD and just made a mistake.

[ludurigan]

It should be fun to discover "new" songs from the Guns n' Roses era (1985-1991) but given all the info we have I would also say that that is very unlikely

All the finished songs from that era seem to be circulation in one way or the other: some were re-recorded for the illusions albums, some are available on bootlegs etc

now if we talk about initial ideas, riffs, parts, undeveloped songs, rehearsal jams, not finished songs etc, then I believe there may be DOZENS of those

Or even HUNDRED of those

That's how bands work, they leave a lot of ideas behind, pretty much every band does that specially bands with more than one songwriter

For every idea that is "accepted" by the band there are usually two, three or four ideas that are rejected and abandoned

Some ideas are tried just once or twice before being abandoned

This video shows the first minutes of a rehearsal that may have gone for hours



You can recognize at least five different ideas on it

1:55 Duff Riff #1
2:13 Steven beat #1
2:22 Steven beat #1 with Izzy riff #1
3:38 Izzy Riff #2
3:55 Slash riff

Those may or may not be from the same "song"

Those may or may not have been tried by the band and developed into a song or into different songs

This other video shows yet another idea

It is clearly a Duff riff/idea

At 12:25

If I am not mistaken this "idea" or "riff" was turned into a song for the first Duff solo album

At 25:23 it seems to be an Izzy idea (I am not sure if that should be called a riff or a chord progression)



We don't know how far they went into developing any of these ideas

The ideas that are developed a bit more and played in different occasions are usually longer and better

Guns n' Roses had four songwriters, they must have produced so much abandoned and rejected material over the seven years they were together

I am nearly 100% sure that this material surely existed one day, but does it exists today?

Has someone recorded it and kept the recordings?

I would say the answer is YES

I would also say that that material has got to be pure gold

Most of these must be with no Axl vocals, since Axl apparently didn't go to rehearsals or band practices

But I would guess that 10% or 20% of it must have some type of tentative Axl vocals

And about 30% or 40% of it may have some sort of Izzy vocals

That's the Holy Grail of Guns n' Roses: material created and recorded by Guns n' Roses when Guns n' Roses existed!

I hope that these surface some day!

And if they are considering using any of it in the present time I hope they have the decency to call Izzy and record the ideas with a proper drummer!

[Blackstar]

Something's cooking, but what could it be...

[Blackstar]

https://twitter.com/mitchlafon/status/1686005536817356802

https://twitter.com/mitchlafon/status/1686013353242537984

[Soulmonster]

That's cool, but I wish they would focus on their own music, and not guest on others'.

[Johan]

It reminds of George R.R. Martin doing all kinds of other crap while procrastinating writing on Winds of Winter, by now the Chinese Democracy of fantasy literature.

[ludurigan]

It reminds of George R.R. Martin doing all kinds of other crap while procrastinating writing on Winds of Winter, by now the Chinese Democracy of fantasy literature.  

Winds of Winter is written by the exact same people (in this case, one person) who wrote the previous books

[Pa810]

From the third clip:

Tom Mayhue: "It's a lot more kind of Appetite orientated. They had a lot of songs - when the band went in originally and recorded Appetite for Destruction, I think they recorded, like, 29 songs. So there's a bunch of... a lot of music that was left over that didn't make the first record. I think there's only 11 songs on the first record".

I wonder what he's referring to here. New music? Something else? It's also an odd thing to say, since, as far as we know, what was left off Appetite was used on UYI.

I'm intrigued by the 29 songs from AFD Era, never heard about that, but it'd be awesome! All I know is we have 12 songs for AFD, which leaves us with 17 other songs, so let's see:

13. Don't Cry
14. You Could Be Mine
15. Back of Bitch
16. Perfect Crime
17. It Taste Good
18. November Rain

Now it gets confusing:

19. Shadow Of Your Love (was for the LLS EP)
20. Jumpin Jack Flash (was for the LLS EP)
21. Heartbreak Hotel (was for the LLS EP)
22. Cornshucker (was for the Lies EP)
23. Too Much To Soon (was after Lies / before UYI)
24. Crash Diet (was after Lies / before UYI)
25. Bring It Back Home (was after Lies / before UYI)
26. Sentimental Movie (was after Lies / before UYI)
27. Don't Damn Me (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
28. Garden of Eden (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
29. Locomotive (Chicago Sessions in 1989)

Is that it? Am I missing something?

We also have:

30. Civil War (before UIY)
31. Knockin' On Heaven's Door (before UIY)

29 songs seems to be not accurate.

[Pa810]

It should be fun to discover "new" songs from the Guns n' Roses era (1985-1991) but given all the info we have I would also say that that is very unlikely

All the finished songs from that era seem to be circulation in one way or the other: some were re-recorded for the illusions albums, some are available on bootlegs etc

now if we talk about initial ideas, riffs, parts, undeveloped songs, rehearsal jams, not finished songs etc, then I believe there may be DOZENS of those

Or even HUNDRED of those

That's how bands work, they leave a lot of ideas behind, pretty much every band does that specially bands with more than one songwriter

For every idea that is "accepted" by the band there are usually two, three or four ideas that are rejected and abandoned

Some ideas are tried just once or twice before being abandoned

This video shows the first minutes of a rehearsal that may have gone for hours



You can recognize at least five different ideas on it

1:55 Duff Riff #1
2:13 Steven beat #1
2:22 Steven beat #1 with Izzy riff #1
3:38 Izzy Riff #2
3:55 Slash riff

Those may or may not be from the same "song"

Those may or may not have been tried by the band and developed into a song or into different songs

This other video shows yet another idea

It is clearly a Duff riff/idea

At 12:25

If I am not mistaken this "idea" or "riff" was turned into a song for the first Duff solo album

At 25:23 it seems to be an Izzy idea (I am not sure if that should be called a riff or a chord progression)



We don't know how far they went into developing any of these ideas

The ideas that are developed a bit more and played in different occasions are usually longer and better

Guns n' Roses had four songwriters, they must have produced so much abandoned and rejected material over the seven years they were together

I am nearly 100% sure that this material surely existed one day, but does it exists today?

Has someone recorded it and kept the recordings?

I would say the answer is YES

I would also say that that material has got to be pure gold

Most of these must be with no Axl vocals, since Axl apparently didn't go to rehearsals or band practices

But I would guess that 10% or 20% of it must have some type of tentative Axl vocals

And about 30% or 40% of it may have some sort of Izzy vocals

That's the Holy Grail of Guns n' Roses: material created and recorded by Guns n' Roses when Guns n' Roses existed!

I hope that these surface some day!

And if they are considering using any of it in the present time I hope they have the decency to call Izzy and record the ideas with a proper drummer!

I read somewhere that Nikki Sixx used to hang out with GNR during some of those reharsals and I that the main riff from Dr. Feelgood was an "ideia", which was "stolen". It makes me wonder that the second part of the riff played by Duff and Steven, in the first video, reminds me a lot of Dr. Feelgood.

[ludurigan]

From the third clip:

Tom Mayhue: "It's a lot more kind of Appetite orientated. They had a lot of songs - when the band went in originally and recorded Appetite for Destruction, I think they recorded, like, 29 songs. So there's a bunch of... a lot of music that was left over that didn't make the first record. I think there's only 11 songs on the first record".

I wonder what he's referring to here. New music? Something else? It's also an odd thing to say, since, as far as we know, what was left off Appetite was used on UYI.

I'm intrigued by the 29 songs from AFD Era, never heard about that, but it'd be awesome! All I know is we have 12 songs for AFD, which leaves us with 17 other songs, so let's see:

13. Don't Cry
14. You Could Be Mine
15. Back of Bitch
16. Perfect Crime
17. It Taste Good
18. November Rain

Now it gets confusing:

19. Shadow Of Your Love (was for the LLS EP)
20. Jumpin Jack Flash (was for the LLS EP)
21. Heartbreak Hotel (was for the LLS EP)
22. Cornshucker (was for the Lies EP)
23. Too Much To Soon (was after Lies / before UYI)
24. Crash Diet (was after Lies / before UYI)
25. Bring It Back Home (was after Lies / before UYI)
26. Sentimental Movie (was after Lies / before UYI)
27. Don't Damn Me (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
28. Garden of Eden (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
29. Locomotive (Chicago Sessions in 1989)

Is that it? Am I missing something?

We also have:

30. Civil War (before UIY)
31. Knockin' On Heaven's Door (before UIY)

29 songs seems to be not accurate.

This is just from the top of my head

Use Your Illusion songs that were written and/or recorded before Appetite

13. Don't Cry
14. Back of Bitch
15. Perfect Crime
16. November Rain
17. Bad Obsession

"Non-LP" tracks that were written and/or recorded before Appetite

18. Shadow Of Your Love
19. Ain't Going Down

Covers that were demoed/recorded before Appetite and most likely on the Appetite sessions

20. Jumpin Jack Flash
21. Heartbreak Hotel

LLAS songs that were demoed before or during the Appetite sessions

22. Reckless Life
23. Move To The City
25. Mama Kin
26. Nice Boys

Songs that may have been demoed/recorded during the Appetite sessions

27. Hair of the Dog

(still 2 songs missing)

Could be some of these 3 songs from the Manny Charlton produced "Sound City!" session.

New Work Tune (Untitled Song In Progress) [Appetite For Destruction 2018 reissue]
The Plague [Appetite For Destruction 2018 reissue]
Cornshucker Stomp [unreleased]

===

Some of the songs you mentioned were most likely written and recorded *after* Appetite

It Taste Good - this was likely written during the Appetite tour (not sure)

Cornshucker - this was likely a "Duff" "joke" song that the band never really considered recording for real; It could very well have been written before Appetite but most likely it was never considered for Appetite and it probably was never demoed on the Appetite sessions; they "demoed" it on the Lies sessions

Too Much To Soon
Crash Diet
Bring It Back Home
Sentimental Movie
Just Another Sunday

>> by all accounts these 5 songs are West Arkeen songs from an West Arkeen demo tape. Axl sung on them, apparently as a way to help West to sell the songs. apparently these were recorded "apart" from the Appetite sessions and were never intended for Guns n' Roses;

Don't Damn Me
Garden of Eden
Locomotive
Civil War

>> by all accounts all these 4 songs were written after the Appetite sessions for the illusion albums



i wonder if this burning hunger for GNR recordings will be ever satisfied

[Pa810]

From the third clip:

Tom Mayhue: "It's a lot more kind of Appetite orientated. They had a lot of songs - when the band went in originally and recorded Appetite for Destruction, I think they recorded, like, 29 songs. So there's a bunch of... a lot of music that was left over that didn't make the first record. I think there's only 11 songs on the first record".

I wonder what he's referring to here. New music? Something else? It's also an odd thing to say, since, as far as we know, what was left off Appetite was used on UYI.

I'm intrigued by the 29 songs from AFD Era, never heard about that, but it'd be awesome! All I know is we have 12 songs for AFD, which leaves us with 17 other songs, so let's see:

13. Don't Cry
14. You Could Be Mine
15. Back of Bitch
16. Perfect Crime
17. It Taste Good
18. November Rain

Now it gets confusing:

19. Shadow Of Your Love (was for the LLS EP)
20. Jumpin Jack Flash (was for the LLS EP)
21. Heartbreak Hotel (was for the LLS EP)
22. Cornshucker (was for the Lies EP)
23. Too Much To Soon (was after Lies / before UYI)
24. Crash Diet (was after Lies / before UYI)
25. Bring It Back Home (was after Lies / before UYI)
26. Sentimental Movie (was after Lies / before UYI)
27. Don't Damn Me (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
28. Garden of Eden (Chicago Sessions in 1989)
29. Locomotive (Chicago Sessions in 1989)

Is that it? Am I missing something?

We also have:

30. Civil War (before UIY)
31. Knockin' On Heaven's Door (before UIY)

29 songs seems to be not accurate.

This is just from the top of my head

Use Your Illusion songs that were written and/or recorded before Appetite

13. Don't Cry
14. Back of Bitch
15. Perfect Crime
16. November Rain
17. Bad Obsession

"Non-LP" tracks that were written and/or recorded before Appetite

18. Shadow Of Your Love
19. Ain't Going Down

Covers that were demoed/recorded before Appetite and most likely on the Appetite sessions

20. Jumpin Jack Flash
21. Heartbreak Hotel

LLAS songs that were demoed before or during the Appetite sessions

22. Reckless Life
23. Move To The City
25. Mama Kin
26. Nice Boys

Songs that may have been demoed/recorded during the Appetite sessions

27. Hair of the Dog

(still 2 songs missing)

Could be some of these 3 songs from the Manny Charlton produced "Sound City!" session.

New Work Tune (Untitled Song In Progress) [Appetite For Destruction 2018 reissue]
The Plague [Appetite For Destruction 2018 reissue]
Cornshucker Stomp [unreleased]

===

Some of the songs you mentioned were most likely written and recorded *after* Appetite

It Taste Good - this was likely written during the Appetite tour (not sure)

Cornshucker - this was likely a "Duff" "joke" song that the band never really considered recording for real; It could very well have been written before Appetite but most likely it was never considered for Appetite and it probably was never demoed on the Appetite sessions; they "demoed" it on the Lies sessions

Too Much To Soon
Crash Diet
Bring It Back Home
Sentimental Movie
Just Another Sunday

>> by all accounts these 5 songs are West Arkeen songs from an West Arkeen demo tape. Axl sung on them, apparently as a way to help West to sell the songs. apparently these were recorded "apart" from the Appetite sessions and were never intended for Guns n' Roses;

Don't Damn Me
Garden of Eden
Locomotive
Civil War

>> by all accounts all these 4 songs were written after the Appetite sessions for the illusion albums



i wonder if this burning hunger for GNR recordings will be ever satisfied  

SCOM was first named "Sweet Lorraine"? LMFAO!

[ludurigan]

SCOM was first named "Sweet Lorraine"? LMFAO!

NO!

"Sweet Lorraine" is actually "November Rain" with a wrong name, probably made up by bootleggers

That image above is from a bootleg. The people who make bootlegs sometimes are not sure about the name of a song and then they get all "creative" hahahahaha and come up with whatever name

That's likely the case with "Sweet Lorraine"

Here is another image from another bootleg with "Sweet Lorraine" on the tracking list:



(as you can see above these bootleggers are so "creative" that even added a sixth band member to the band way before Axl decided to bring Dizzy in!)

I vividly remember seeing a bootleg album in the early 90's (this is pre-internet!) with that "Sweet Lorraine" track and getting all crazy about it

"Wow, what song is that, I need to listen to it, what can I do to listen to this?"

I paid about US$ 2 for the guy in the shop to record the album for me in a cassette tape -- that's what you did back then when you were a kid and you didn't have US$ 30 or US$ 40 to buy the bootleg itself!

I got home all excited to listen to this "mysterious" track "Sweet Lorraine". Turns out there was no "Sweet Lorraine" -- it was actually "November Rain", the acoustic guitar version!

Here is some discussion on it = Sweet Lorraine?

A similar case that I also remember happened to a (terrific!) live blues jam recorded in Madison 1987 where Axl talks over during the jam going off on cops. Bootleg makers named that jam as "Axl's Blues" and "Cop Rap" in different bootlegs.

This one:



A GN'R live version of "Mairselles" by the Angels with Duff singing was named "Nothing to Lose" on a bootleg album and people put it on the internet and that got people for years speculating if GN'R had covered the Kiss song of that name -- but that was not the case.

Talking about that, I just found this absolute gem live version of Mairselles with Axl, Slash and Duff (!!!) that I didn't even know existed and had never listened to before!



I just love the internet

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