2020.08.05 - Appetite For Distortion - Doug Goldstein talks The Spaghetti Incident

Transcript:

Brando: How are you?

Doug Goldstein: I'm good, brother. It's nice to see you again, Brando.

Brando: We speak on the phone. I mean, I want to say, I'm not going to act like... It happens. It's not like a once in a blue... It's more than once in a blue moon. It's like definitely a few times where I can be like, okay.

DG: How long does it take you to answer the phone when you call?

Brando: You answer pretty much right away or text. You're on first ring. It makes me feel good.

DG: You make me feel good.

Brando: It's interesting as we get off on this bromance right here.

DG: It's bromance.

Brando: You've been on the show for a few times. And you've been great each time. It's not even just the GN'R stories from you specifically, but I love, I still bring up the fact that you brought the official Guns N' Roses chiropractor on the show.

DG: Yeah, yeah, Mr. Thaxton, Dr. Thaxton, that's right.

Brando: From Use Your Illusion, that tour. And no, that's, to me that's what it's all about, and I think you get it. It's like, yeah, there's Guns N' Roses stuff, but to find out cool stuff about these interesting people that you may not know. So it's all about the may not, you may not know. And actually, Doug, this is a nice little segue into, you know, obviously we're gonna talk GN'R, but we're gonna do it in a different way today, or a more narrowed down way as we focus on the Spaghetti Incident, and we'll dive into why and all the fun stuff. But as, just like Dr. Stephen Thaxton, you try to highlight these people, yes, he was actually involved with the band, but it's great to interview people that aren't maybe Doug Goldstein who have these great stories with the band members, but they still have a story. So recently, when was the last time, Doug, you were in New York City?

DG: Wow, it's been a long time, man. I'd say probably three, four years.

Brando: Okay. Well, when this thing is said and done, where we can go out, you know, because we've obviously Zoomed, or at least we've FaceTimed before, we've spoken before, we have yet to meet. But when we do meet when you do come to New York. We have to go to, and I finally just went, because I interviewed the owner of this restaurant establishment a few episodes ago, and I'm pulling up my shirt as it looks like I'm just grabbing my boobs. It looks like a King Kong, and this is the Spaghetti Incident or spaghetti incident.  So I finally went to Giovanni. He owns A Spaghetti Incident in New York City and it was recommended to me by another AFD show listener because I didn't know about, I'm like, how is there a Guns N' Roses named restaurant in New York City that I don't? So I had this spaghetti and meatballs. It was amazing. He gave me this. It was very nice. I was going to ask him like, how much are shirts? And he just came out with a shirt for me. So we're going to have to get Doug Goldstein to eat at the Spaghetti Incident. Because that would just be surreal. And I thought about you because...

DG: [?] talked about the Old Homestead in the meatpacking district? The parties that used to go on there?

Brando: I'm sure. I mean, they've told me that.

DG: I mean, it was huge back then. I went back there, I don't know, maybe seven years ago, and it's like a quarter of the size. It used to be a massive restaurant. I don't know why they, you know, they took the capacity down. But Axl used to throw kind of thank you parties to all the crew. Everybody got steak lobster, whatever they want, drinks, everything free and Axl personally paid for it. It wasn't like a band expense. And we probably had, [?] we probably had three or four of those. The bill was so big that our tour accountant had to stay behind and settle[?] the bill. So, but yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting. I played golf today and with a couple of guys and they're about my age, I guess. You know, they asked me what I do and what I've done. And so I brought up the GN'R thing. They said, no way. So this guy texted his buddy, he has a big GN'R fan. "Is Axl still a big asshole?" And I said, "You know what? That's the funny thing. The guy has this horrible reputation. And he was the nicest person to work for. He was awesome to work for." I mean, he treated us, anybody that worked for him, you can ask and they say, he was incredible to us.

Brando: I've done a lot of interviews. It's more than just you being the former manager for such a long time and especially that Use Your Illusion tour that, just think about it. Just going on a road trip with your friends or being in quarantine right now, people are breaking up, getting divorced. To be on the road with all the hoopla going around GN'R, to be around that, yeah. And the interview... But I've never heard anything bad about Axl other than what people say in the press or stupid fans, like people who don't know him.

DG: That's right. That's why we have keyboards.

Brando: But it's just fascinating how it's taken on the narrative that Axl's a bad guy. And maybe you need someone to blame and it's so easy to like Slash. I mean, I don't know if you have....

DG: The last time I talked to him, it was because I had done a podcast with you. And he said, stop saying nice things about me. "What are you talking about?" He doesn't like when people say nice things about him. In the press.

Brando: He doesn't like that? Why?

DG: His argument is, "Did anybody ask Picasso what his art meant? I'm an artist. I'm not interested in public opinion. I don't really care. And I don't want anybody trying to change public opinion because I really don't give a shit what anybody thinks." Okay. Fair enough.

Brando: Alright. That's interesting.

DG: Most of us do care what others think. He just doesn't.

Brando: I mean, he seems to, at times, again, he seems to be a completely different person now, but at times lashing out at the media. So it seems like it bothered him at times, no?

DG: When it's unjust.

Brando: I mean, Get In The Ring, he was pretty pissed off.

DG: Yeah, right. Okay, I'll give you that. But again, he's lashing out at people that don't know him that are in a very high public opinion. And so it's somebody in a very high public opinion making defamatory comments, that is a little different than fans.

Brando: Well, that's why I try to, for me to have as much a down the road opinion, because I don't, unless I've met somebody, you know, and that's why it's funny when, you know, I forget if I've said this on the air, but it was the episode that we did with Dr. Thaxton and he told that really funny story about Axl's sister and she was being awesome, being like an awesome nurse trying to help. It was a security guard during the riot and he had a gash in his head, right? And there was no proper, I guess, a medical kid[?] around. I'm telling the story like I was there. And it was doctors. It was doctor, you weren't there, right? It was just Dr. Thaxton.

DG: I was a little busy trying to keep the cops from pelting fans with big wooden sticks.

Brando: Okay. Short story, I mean, you want to go back and listen to the episode to hear Dr. Thaxton say it, but basically, she had the brilliant idea to use cocaine on the guy's injury, try to numb it, and she couldn't find it. And the irony of like in Columbia with Guns N' Roses, how do you not find it?

DG: She wasn't looking in the right places. [laughs]

Brando: And it's a funny story.

DG: [?] going to go to one of the band members rooms. [laughs]

Brando: I guess so. You know, you had to check under the rug or, you know, behind the shower curtain or something. But it was a message to me and it's happened enough times where I can kind of believe these third parties that tell me this, the information that, people were upset that I guess she was brought up in not just my podcast, I guess a lot of my interviews and a lot of what you say, which is why I appreciate you coming on, gets picked up by the media, gets picked up by, and it's not always verbatim. I mean, maybe in the article, but the clickbait headlines.

DG: Right. Right. [?] take things contextually, out of context, right, to make it fit whatever they're trying to to persuade others to believe.

Brando: Right. So that's why, you know, every time when I've had you have you on, I know you're going to always be honest. You're always going to be nice. Like, I'm never really afraid to speak with you as far as things that may be said out of turn or, you know, what the Internet does with it. It is what it is, that you can't control. But I just wanted to bring that up because I still want to get whatever stories I can from you because you were there, I wasn't. Because I asked you and I've been doing a lot of, I think it was last year I asked you this and I know sometimes it's hard to connect with the right time.

DG: You're my age.

Brando: Also with COVID and everything, but it was the anniversary, I think it falls on the same day, The Spaghetti Incident, Live Era, Chinese Democracy. I think they all came out November 3rd.

DG: Is that right?

Brando: I want to say that. If I know that from memory.

DG: Yeah. You don't have to look it up. I trust your judgment, bud.

Brando: I get a lot of stuff wrong. For the people who listen, actually, November 23rd, 1993 is when Spaghetti came out. So I think I'm right about the others. Because I will admit, I get a lot... People think I know everything. I don't. I've said that since episode one. Do I get a lot? I wish this was a live call-in show at times for people to correct me. So anyway, that got me thinking. I'm like, Doug is great. I think I just got off the heels of you, yeah. It's all coming back to me. You called me last October when I was in Austin, Texas, Austin City Limits to see GN'R. And we were on the phone for a while and that kind of sparked the idea of just like, let's just do it on the show. And you've had maybe podcast ideas that maybe down the road we'll see. But then I'm like, you know what? Let's talk to Doug about specific albums instead of just, you know, let's just talk about Guns N' Roses and craziness. Let's focus in on one period. So I asked you the other day or a few weeks ago, whatever, what album would you want to focus on that you worked on with Guns N' Roses? And really without hesitation, you said the Spaghetti Incident. So I'm just curious, why was that the first one?  Because off the air just now, we were talking about Live Era. But why right away was the Spaghetti Incident?

DG: There was no fanfare, it was released, there was zero push on the label. I know why. I mean, you know, if you look at the release date, right on the heels of another Geffen artist out of Seattle, Nirvana. So... All the, I mean, what happened at Geffen and I'm not expecting the listeners to know this, but this hopefully is educational. They got rid of all the rock guys and put all their cards in the alternative end. And so we were quote unquote dinosaurs, even when in '93, we're still one of the biggest bands in the world. We were kind of put out to pasture by the label. Oddly enough.

Brando: Even off such a successful tour? I mean, people wanting new Guns N' Roses. Again, that's what makes GN'R, we talked about this ad nauseam, that GN'R was never like Poison or Ratt. And I love those bands, but they were different. They weren't part of that era where you're like, "Oh, I listen to Guns N' Roses" and maybe some very, the most casual fan might associate them with the Sunset. I think of Motley Crue, Warrant. So to me, they were like an alternate to the alternate alternative, if that makes any sense. So what gave you that sense then? Like they weren't paying attention to you, they were giving all the focus to you?

DG: All the personnel changed. So now, I mean, instead of having the head promotion be a rock guy, it was not. That's just a fair way to put it. And you can tell when you walk in the building and they look at you like yesterday's news, it's pretty apparent that there was a huge shift in what they saw, where music was going to go. And we weren't a part of that.

Brando: How did that, in that moment, because you obviously feel like you're still the biggest band in the world, did you feel kind of like, what the fuck? Or we were like, you know what? Or, fuck you. Which one did you feel?

DG: I felt like Tim Collins must have felt when... And whoever was managing Whitesnake at the time, when Guns N' Roses hit. Because those guys got pushed out, same label. Yeah.

Brando: So you felt like the writing was on the wall or something?

DG: Very much so, yeah. And to see Aerosmith kind of get pushed to the wayside because Guns N' Roses was outselling them, I think was horse shit. [?] Because Aerosmith had been doing it forever. And they were great to us on the road. I mean, phenomenal to us.

Brando: Well, that's because that was when Aerosmith was sober, right?

DG: Yeah, oh yeah.

Brando: And you were dealing with, kind of dealing with that, which is...

DG: We weren't allowed to meet them.

Brando: You weren't allowed to meet them?

DG: "Stay in your dressing room. Don't come out." [laughs] Yeah.

Brando: Oh, that's amazing. I guess one of the questions that, because I wanna read a lot of fan questions who really enjoy your interviews and when you speak. I know there are rumors about the name of the album, but I believe it has been confirmed by Slash and Duff at times, does it have to do the Spaghetti Incident with the Steven Adler lawsuit? Is that what it's named after, like a story within that?

DG: I don't know. I really don't know the derivation of it, honestly. I mean I'd be lying if I just speculated and tried to throw something against throw some spaghetti against the wall.

Brando: So then because what... I want to give maybe the credit to the fan if I could find it on on Twitter. I read it earlier. Oh this is from a "red-black 1206" and this was I guess when they were asking Duff in court, I guess, with the lawsuit with Steven with the rights and the name and all that stuff. The lawyer for Stephen asked Duff if they would fight as roommates. And he's like, "Oh, never seriously kind of like brotherly fights. Like if I had spaghetti in the refrigerator and then somebody would eat half of it, you know," it's kind of like that. And then I guess when he was asked, like on the stand, the lawyer referred to it as "the spaghetti incident." Like it was a real thing. Again, I heard a lot of different rumors, but this is near...

DG: This is gonna be educational for me, this whole thing then.

Brando: Interesting. Interesting. So then, I guess, how did the creation of this album start? You're coming off that tour. How did your involvement...

DG: We were talking about what to do next, and we knew that there needed to be some kind of a stopgap. We toured for two and a half years. And we didn't know when the next album was gonna come out. And so we thought we would do something fun for the fans. And it never, like I said, it never was really taken the way that we intended. The whole thing was just to pay homage to some bands that otherwise wouldn't make the same amount of money had we not put it out. And then that's why I really wish that the label would have supported a little greater because Guns N' Roses had boatloads of money. It was really about trying to get some of these bands that have written these songs, more exposure and money at the same time. Because back then it wasn't free, right? You had to pay for albums.

Brando: Wow. Okay. So which is great because I believe it says in the album to make sure you check out the originals. And I know I speak for many Guns N' Roses fans. There are bands, even though I... punk rock is something that I've loved since I started getting into rock as a kid, but there were still bands that I found out about or maybe heard a song that I hadn't heard before, a different take on it. But I will say, as somebody who, in 1993 when this came out, I was, sorry Doug, I was 10 years old. So I didn't come up with it.

DG: Me too, Brandon!

Brando: As maybe that GN'R fan of that time would have seen, like, oh, a covers record. But when I started buying albums in my early teens, I always dismissed it because I would always hear from Guns N' Roses fans, "It's just a cover record." But then I listened to it.

DG: Yeah. And then when people talk about it's just a cover record, I don't know, they did pretty good with Live and Let Die, Knock On Heaven's Door, stop me. You know, they did pretty good covers of those.

Brando: So this was, again, I want to get lost in talking to you, Doug, just like a friend. I want to make sure I get these band questions. So this is, and you kind of answered a little bit of it. This is from Paul Elliott. And I'm going to go to Twitter for this. I want people to follow @AFD show on Twitter, from Paul Elliott. "So at that point, did they expect the band to work on new material or was it a blatant stopgap?" So he wants to know if this was just kind of like... Let's just put something out or was there an expectation?

DG: The label would allow for us to start, you know, to put out new material. But we all knew that, let there be some time between projects. I mean, it was a different time. It wasn't the Beatles putting out, you know, how many albums they put out in seven years. You needed at the time that we had come off the road to have some time off, particularly just to write it. I mean, the guys weren't writing much on the road. And so there was a stopgap to let them, the band, breathe from being on the road for two and a half damn years and put it out and hopefully have some legs to it, some longevity so that we could actually take some more time putting the record out.

Brando: Yeah, which makes sense. It's like, okay, let's do something now, which will... I don't even want to call it buying time, but just to let us focus more and not rush anything. But there was an expectation of new material. There was.

DG: Yeah, pretty much so.

Brando: This is from SlashNRoses16 on Twitter, and she's actually 13, which is cool, which is Guns N' Roses fans of all ages. "So how did the band choose their songs from the album?" and she has like a follow-up which is funny. But like how do they, I guess, go about choosing? Was there any sort of vote? Like how did that?

DG: Let's say, it's funny to say, I mean, not much of a vote other than, "Hey, bring in what you like and we'll kind of compare notes." And it was kind of funny recently as I saw Slash was talking about, you know, Hair of the Dog was his idea. No, it wasn't. Oh, was it? I had two songs and I'm not proud of them because one of them really didn't go over very well, Since I Don't Have You. That was my, yeah, because it's an old 50's standard that I really liked. And I had privately talked to Axl about that and Hair of the Dog. And obviously Hair of the Dog doesn't fit as far as a punk covers record either. But, you know, there were two songs that I personally liked. And when I discussed them with him, he opted to go with those.

Brando: Wow, okay. That's it.

DG: I do have a favorite on the album.

Brando: Okay, I'm gonna ask to follow up two things there, but I want to finish with Slash and Slash and Slash. Does she have a real name on here? No, I just want to give her a shout out. 13 from Canada. Maybe we should save this. She wants to know what they do during their spare time during recording. But I don't want to lose my train of thought here. So, I guess, what's your favorite song on the album?

DG: Attitude, no question. I love that song, that is great.

Brando: You know what?

DG: Yeah. I mean, Duff's vocals, Slash's guitar, and even Slash, his background vocals, where he's singing, "Attitude!" [?] It's very cool, man. I mean, all of the components in it are just fun, upbeat, uplifting, and I love Duff's punk voice. Not to knock Axl, but Down on the Farm, he's trying to sing it in an English accent and I know him too well and that just doesn't go over for me.

Brando: Okay. And I will agree with you on Attitude. I think that was the song that really clicked for me at first. I remember when I first listened to it, when I bought it on CD. So it's interesting that you say that you were the one that suggested Since I Don't Have You. And I personally, I guess growing up, you know, my dad got me into classic rock when I was ever in the car with him. My mom, for those who have either traveled to New York or are from New York, CBS-FM used to be an oldies station. And I still listen to doo-wop. I still love, you know, 50s rock, you know, 50s, 60s. I really do like it, especially, I love it when it comes to my generic, my overall playlist when I'll have it like a Dion and the Belmonds go into a GN'R song or something like that.

DG: Something you don't ever spoke about, but you know I worked with David Lee Roth as a bodyguard. And the interesting thing about Dave is every single show, every show, for an hour, he listens to James Brown before he hits the stage. In the right frame of mind, right?

Brando: Now I'm imagining someone's got to recreate that somehow. [?]

DG: I mean nobody knows that about Dave. You know, "Diamond Dave", you know, James Brown. I mean, it's pretty awesome.

Brando: I could see it. You know, that style is a big influence on Diamond Dave's showmanship. So I totally see that. But I love that style. But obviously it's so... it's not a punk song. It's the one song that stands out. It's the first track on the album. It was the one that has the video with Gary Oldman as the devil. Right? So I guess there's a lot to unpack just there. How did the rest of the band, I guess, take that? I mean, because that's again, I'm a fan of that. You're a fan of that. Are they a fan of that?

DG: If they were, if there was any pushback, I didn't hear about it. But I didn't hear about much of what would go on albums. I mean, that really wasn't part of my role. My role was, "You hand it to me, I'll market it." So they didn't involve me in the studio that much. It was fine with me. I mean, you know, they were such a competent band that they didn't need help in the studio.

Brando: Then how did the suggestion thing, I guess, come up?

DG: I'm sorry?

Brando: Then how did the suggestion for the two songs from you come up?

DG: I mean, Axl and I, we used to talk, you know, hours and hours and hours every day and night. And so just came up in conversation.

Brando: Oh, okay. Yeah, and those are... I mean, fans are, and I'm thanking you. Those are great tracks. I mean, I know Nazareth may not be punk, but I'm like, who gives a shit? This is just, it's a great song. Obviously the original is, but GN'R does a great version of it. Uh, then let me ask before I forget it, were you on set for, like, how were you involved in the video for?

DG: I wasn't on set for the Gary Oldman one. UI don't remember why I wasn't, just wasn't.

Brando: Do you know how that came about? Like how you, how Gary...

[Doug gets a call]

Brando: Unpause. We'll see, because I'm not a video editor. I know you had to take a phone call. And I always say this too. I always said it even when I was focusing on audio. And Tommy Stinson did this to me once and it was great. This was just audio. We were on the phone for like 15 minutes. And he's like, "Oh crap, I forgot to bring my girlfriend dinner. Can I call you in like 45 minutes?" Sure. So I fixed it together. Audio and no one's the wiser. But Zoom. I don't know. So yeah, I asked you...

DG: First of all, thanks for letting me take it, Brandon.

Brando: Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, hey, if the CIA needs you...

DG: That's right.

Brando: So I asked, do you know how Gary Oldman got involved with the video?

DG: I don't. Axl was a big fan. And I mean, look, even Slash says, "When it came to the videos, I just let Axl do it." And that's what everybody would tell you. I mean, when it came to the videos, that was Axl's deal.

Brando: Okay. Okay. Did you ever have an opinion on it? What's your favorite video, I guess? I only ask that, that's more of a safer question. At least, that's a safer question.

DG: Yeah. Boy, that's a tough one. I don't know.

Brando: We can come back to it if you want.

DG: Well, I mean, arguably Paradise City is a great video, particularly when you take into consideration how much we didn't spend on it. I just loved the live components of it, you know, and having been at both places, you know, Giants Stadium and then Donington. And just, it, it meant a lot.Obviously there was the death at Donington and so that kind of memorializes that for me as well. I saw him, I saw a real vulnerable side of Axl that nobody else sees. He was really hurt. We've talked about that, but really, really upset.

Brando: Yeah, that is documented just like, I can't even imagine. And there's so many recordings of Axl, especially famously in Live Era, which you worked on as well, about "Back up!" You know, obviously we're in a different world now, but we can't do any of that. But let's just get back to this. Live Era can maybe be another episode with you. Let's go back to the questions. This is from Carlos A. Velasquez on Twitter, "What songs were recorded and remain unreleased?" Do you know, like, with or without Axl's vocals? Were there any other tracks that maybe made the cutting room for-

DG: For Spaghetti Incident?

Brando: Yeah.

DG: I don't know, none of that. But again, I never got much involved in what happened to the studio, so-

Brando: But you wouldn't, Axl wouldn't tell you what we're working on, because this... Gilby apparently mentioned Down on the Street by the Stooges and there was talks of a Hanoi Rocks... There was a Hanoi Rocks cover.

DG: Yeah, I just read that somewhere. That Monroe wanted a... he was kind of pushing Hanoi Rocks on. But yeah, again, "Let me know when you've recorded it, I'll market it." And so I wasn't privy to some of that stuff that was transferring. And a lot of that was done on the road and to be honest with you, my job was about 24 hours straight with, you know, I sleep every third or fourth day. So it was a little time-consumptive being the personal manager on the road. So I didn't get caught up in stuff that I wasn't asked to be caught up in because I was busy enough.

Brando: Yeah, fair enough. Again, because you say you talk, you would speak to Axl all the time and you casually mentioned two songs that would be on come to be on the record. So you guys never obviously where you knew where your pocket is and not getting to get involved in other places where you you know, you need to be things to say.

DG: He asked me what my opinion was. You know, "What do you..." "Is there any songs you like?" "Do you think we should cover..." that's how that came up.

Brando: Was there a conversation about Charles Manson? The cover of Charles Manson. Was that covered between you two?

DG: That was kind of like One In A Million, I found out after the fact. And so you gotta deal with the repercussions after it's done. You get a call, you do realize that there is a song. It's like, "Oh my, what?" So yeah, like I said, it was pretty tantamount to what happened with One In a Aillion. So, yeah.

Brando: Yeah, it's not as, I mean, I guess it's not as controversial because...

DG: I don't know.

Brando: It's, yeah, I guess it depends. I don't know if we want to discuss and go dive deep into like-

DG: [?] homophobia.

Brando: Yeah, I don't think that's not our conversation to have. Which one is worse?

DG: Yeah, right.

Brando: Oh man, and it's cool. A few episodes ago, I interviewed Damon Harriman, the Australian actor who played Manson in both Once Upon a Time in Mexico and Mind Hunter on Netflix. People say it's like, yeah, obviously Manson was, I mean, what can you say about him? He was a nut job to say the least, to just smooth it over. But some of his music was, he's like, some of his music wasn't, was okay, but you could see why he never really made it. Did Axl show any sort of, and I'm not even doing this as a judgment because I am somebody that I'm obsessed with horror movies, like really bad ones. We're not just talking, you know, goosebumps. Like I've seen the Human Centipede trilogy. Like I've, Slash and I were both messed up. That's how I get away with it. Slash is also, and Del James loves messed up horror.

DG: Del James has always been into the morose, if you will.

Brando: So, yeah, along with that, so there's no judgment. Was Axl, like, was he into serial killers? Because I think back...

DG: You know what? I mean, here's where the whole Manson thing came from, in my opinion. It's, "Everybody thinks I'm a freak and I'm a weirdo, just like they think Manson is a freak and a weirdo. So I'll wear a Manson shirt. I'll do a Manson song. Because everybody thinks I'm a kook anyway." In my opinion, I don't think he ever was out to glamorize what Charles Manson had done in any way or shape or form.

Brando: I never even took it that way either. It's just, I always thought about it's like how I, you know, I'll wear, you know, I like Jason Voorhees or, I mean, I know those are fictional, but I'm just trying to think it's just like a... Maybe it was a thing. I didn't collect them, but the serial killer trading cards were a thing. You know, people are into it. People watch what they call murder porn. You watch all these documentaries about people that kill and they love it. They get obsessed with it. So maybe you're like-

DG: If you want to go there, my second wife is the only eyewitness ever to one of our country's biggest serial killers. They call him the "dating game killer", Rodney James Alcala. Through DNA, they've linked him to 130 murders, rape and murders, and then hacked him up. One was her friend and she's the only eyewitness ever. He's finally put away for good. 2010, we put him away. But I mean, the first time he was incarcerated, she was 12. And although I like him young, but not that young.

Brando: So that's why I never take things, you know, like One In A Million or covering Charles Manson too seriously, because there is true evil out there. And singing a song when you're trying to either just like have some sort of ironic statement or something about it. I just don't ever really get offended by it, you know, because this was, I didn't notice this. And this was the, from the guy who sent me a couple of passages from quotes from Slash and Duff about the meeting behind the Spaghetti Incident, "redblack1206" on Twitter, because he's like, "What's the story behind," and I never noticed this, "JYE/ZXS inscription on the cover of the album? Did Axl have a fascination with the Zodiac Killer?" I've never heard of that.

DG: Neither have I.

Brando: I don't know. We'll get some sleuths on that. I never heard that. I've never heard of that. Now, I know you didn't spend time in the album, but I don't know what you may know about this situation, but obviously, Gilby Clarke famously re-recorded Izzy's parts.

DG: Yes.

Brando: And as I look at it like this, and it's kind of like it was the approach of Chinese Democracy, I like that you're incorporating the band that you have now, and they're not just a touring musician. I like that they're involved in the recording, even though if it's re-recording or whatever. So when Gilby re-recorded Izzy's guitar parts, how did that go over with the rest of the band? Is there a sense that you feel any sort of friction start to begin there?

DG: Not really, because everybody really liked Gilby. Particularly Slash and Duff. I mean, they loved Gilby. And so no, I don't think there was any pushback at all. It was kind of like, I mean, I think everybody felt like... Nobody's ever said this to me, but the sense that I got was that everybody was kind of... their feelings were hurt that Izzy just failed[?]. Kind of without warning, really, he just failed[?]. I mean, I guess you could see the writing on the wall if you really look close enough, but, yeah, he was traveling on his own and we all thought that that was just to maintain sobriety. But it didn't surprise me when the directive came that he wasn't going to be on the record and his parts weren't going to be there. I don't think anybody was alarmed or upset about that call at all.

Brando: OK, that's cool. And I mean, Gilby seems to be friends with all of them. So that relationship has obviously continued. And I'll just say this because you made a reference to it earlier. And I was actually going to avoid this question, but it makes me laugh now. Or it wasn't even a question. I guess it's. This is from Chris, as I talk to myself. Chris-

DG: Like the person you're dealing with, Brandon.

Brando: This is Chris German on, which is spelled very awkwardly on Twitter. "Who the fuck thought Axl's comedy cockney accent on Down on the Farm was a good idea?"

DG: Not me. [laughs]

Brando: I don't know. He's having fun with it. I don't think it's too-

DG: Yeah. I think you're right. I think he just had fun with it. I told you at the beginning, I mean, it's not my favorite song, primarily because of that. But I'll tell you, I mean, that being said, and because I kind of had to stop myself when I made that comment because, you know, we did that song at Farm Aid and that's a great memory for me.You know, that was a lot of fun. Riding back on the plane and sitting next to Steven Stills and all I wanted to talk about was probably Stills and Nash and all he wanted to talk about was golf. I was like, "I don't want to talk about golf! Please, tell me about the harmonies."

Brando: It's probably like, well, I mean, you seem to be very receptive to it, obviously, but people are like, "Hey, tell me about Guns N' Roses." You know, so I think at some point you will... I don't know if you were going to collect these interviews to remember, but your book will have to come out at some point. I'm not... I want to track all your stories. What else do we got here? I do want to give just a shout out to a good listener, Nick Wilson, who says, "It drives me crazy when people talk shit about this album. I love it." This is from LeonardoDS, who says, why didn't they record the covers from their club days? Like Jumping Jack Flash or Heartbreak Hotel?

DG: I mean, it was a punk cover album. It wouldn't be punk, right?

Brando: Right. But then we get the songs that you added. So, yeah, you never know. As far as... because I think Slash has spoken about how he wanted to tour on that album. Like, can you talk about touring plans that just I guess did not happen, obviously?

DG: No, there was no way I was going to get everybody back together in that short time space to go back out. Axl, I mean, he wasn't in any condition to be touring on Use Your Illusion, let alone going back out for a Spaghetti Incident tour.

Brando: What do you mean? He wasn't in a condition?

DG: He wasn't in the headspace to be doing any of that. That whole tour was really hard on him. With what happened with Stephanie, not even Stephanie as much as it was Dylan. I think he loved to be Dylan's dad. And that was a very traumatic one. I just don't think that he was in any mental condition to be trying to get up and prepared for a show on a regular basis.

Brando: Okay, all right. Fair enough. Let me see, let me just actually go to Facebook now. So facebook.com/theAFD show. This is from Matt's, I believe he's from Poland. He is from Poland. Nice. "When Axl wanted something," sometimes you know, GN'R fans are they. I don't even know what sometimes what they say is completely accurate, "When Axl wanted something erased, was it actually erased or they were secret back backups of everything? Like the Izzy version of the album? Like, is that out there?" You know, would that be quote unquote out there?

DG: I think that if one searched hard enough, they'd be able to find, I don't think they were erased. I mean, I think that those are just tracks that were done over. And I would venture to guess, although I don't say with any certainty, that those tracks exist with Izzy's parts. I don't think you just erase them. I think you just overdub and put new tracks on.

Brando: Okay. Let's just tell our mutual buddy Rick Dunsford to calm down and not look for them and get himself into any more trouble.

DG: "Mr. Band."

Brando: This Mr. Band. This is from JJ and we were talking about the album. He's from Indiana. "As far as how the label looked at it, was the album successful in their eyes despite like really not pushing it?" Was it financially successful? Like how did they view it when it came out, when it was finally said and done?

DG: Well, as I mentioned, it was pretty much buried by the label. It's hard to be successful when you've got nobody pushing any songs to radio. None. So I don't even know why we made a video. Nobody chased it at MTV. And I mean, you know, but again, it was, you know, right on the same delivery schedule as Smells Like Teen Spirit. Which one did better?

Brando: Yeah, well, that's hard. I mean, that's being up there. For me, in my generation, I guess, because I mentioned I was 10 in 1993. So that's when Nirvana was new. Nevermind is like my era's Appetite. Iit changed everything. I'm glad that I was kind of, I don't know, I wasn't born a little later that I missed GN'R, but still it's... I mean, yeah, how do you go against that? I do want to make sure I do say this also. A buddy that worked on the, a former guest of the show who's worked on the album, Richard Duguay, he says, "Hi to Doug for me," "Say hi to Doug for me."

DG: Hey, Richard, how you doing buddy?

Brando: Yeah, Richard who played lead in rhythm on You Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory. And he's putting out new music. So check out Richard. There are artists putting out new music now. It does, yeah, that is a thing. What else? And I'm not going to keep you for too much longer because...

DG: I do want to mention a band that I just signed with.

Brando: I was going to get to that. Don't worry. I haven't forgotten. The French band that sounds like Sabbath.

DG: A lot like Sabbath. Yeah, they're fantastic.

Brando: So let me just ask this one last question. You know what? This guy's a good dude. This is Dirk from Germany. He says the same question as last time, maybe I didn't get to it. "Hey, Doug, tell us a funny story about Zakk Wylde".

DG: Oh, yeah. Wow. I don't know if there's any funny stories about Zakk. Zakk's a pretty serious guy and he's a big dude. OK, I'll tell one funny story. So I didn't get along, I mean, I managed him, right? And I didn't get along with his wife very well. And so she told me to go in and yell at the record company president. He was about 70. And I didn't have that kind of relationship. He used to call me Kit, and I called him Pops, right? I mean, you don't yell at your dad, right? So, "Get in there and yell at him!" And because Pride and Glory came out when Teen Spirit came out, and one's a Southern rock record and the other's not. So it was a tough get. So she's asking me to go yell at him. So fast forward years later, and I'm sitting inside of Den and Anaheim[?], they do this, Brian Tichy does this, right, the tribute that he does every year. Anyway, so he's doing that and I'm sitting in a dressing room and this massive, I think, stagehand walks in and the lights behind him, so I can't really see him. And he's got his arms full and he's not saying a word, but he looks pissed, right? And I don't know what he wants or who he is. I didn't realize until a year later that it was Zakk. He was waiting for me to say something like, "Hey, bud!" I didn't. I think he would have pounded me. He's a big fella, man.

Brando: He is. I mean, I guess I open up the curtain sometimes on this show. I know his manager. Like I used to, I think I told you, I moved from Long Island to Queens last year from Huntington. His manager's from Huntington. And it just hasn't happened yet, getting him on the show. I think I just, I don't know, I gotta get bigger and bigger.

DG: There was a song on the Pride and Glory record called Sweet Jesus, was a ballad, and he wrote it on the piano. And so for Christmas, he gave me a framed, the framed version of that song that he had written out, the notation for it.

Brando: Oh, that's nice, that's cool.

DG: Yeah, bitchin', I still have it. One of the few things that I actually still have that wasn't sold by a heroin addict who was supposed to be keeping his eye on my stuff for me.

Brando: This is like, I don't envy, you know, you or other, like, I guess, whatever you want to call it, rock stars from the rock world to write a biography, autobiography rather, because it's like how many... every time I ask you something it leads to like eight other stories. Yeah, right. And I can't, it's just insane. So I gotta put a stop to it at some point in this episode, because otherwise we're gonna keep going and going. So tell me about, because I know you're in Florida now, but tell me about this French band that you're dealing with.

[...]

DG: Look, I love that guy. Izzy's like, you know, it's interesting. Him and I were never very close, but I love the guy. I just love everything about him. It's like, you know, Chris and Rich Robinson, they were calling me before they were signed to Rick Rubin, and first I thought, "Oh, they must love Slash." Nope. They loved Izzy. They loved everything about Izzy. Because he was just, they called him "The king of cool." He was just very cool, man. He was kind of, you know, and the funny thing about Izzy too is he'll flat out tell you to go F yourself if he thinks you need it. Never had a problem doing that either.

Brando: It just seems like, you know, why he and Axl, I don't want to say were friends, are friends or whatever, there seems to be that... I don't, you're going to get what you get. You're getting, you're shooting straight from the hip. But do you have, maybe I shouldn't ask this question and piss off the current camp. Do you have a prediction as to when it's all said and done, assuming we go back to the normal life, that we would ever see the five on stage again, or at least is he involved? Maybe not Steven, do you have any?

DG: I don't think so. I mean, they did two and a half years without him. Why bring him back?

Brando: Well, maybe think about it, because you just mentioned the Robinson brothers that you thought that would never happen. They got back together.

DG: Yeah, true. Yeah. But then again, I never thought that Slash and Axl would stand on a stage together. But it's a little different with Izzy. I believe that, you know, we've all heard that, you know, they wanted [?] less than a proportion of share. And I think for Izzy it's a personal thing. He started the band with Axl. And so, "Why," you know, "would you cut me short financially?" And from their perspective, "We just did two and a half hours," I mean, "Two and a half years without you, why would we put you back in?" I mean, it's purely financial. I don't think it has anything to do with anything else.

Brando: All right, I mean, cause I've heard the, also the argument, I get that, you know, he didn't start the band, but Axl's been keeping it alive all these years and keeping them, even when they're-

DG: That was one of the arguments that Axl and I had when Slash left. I didn't think that he should call it Guns N' Roses anymore. And he disagreed with me. I thought that he should have called it, you know, just being facetious, but Axl Rose Project, something with his name, right?

Brando: You remember? Are you just like, what?

DG: I don't even know if I came up with something. I just said, "I don't know that you should taint the, what you had in the original name, by using it again." And you've heard my argument as to why I think Chinese Democracy took as long as it did because he was the only guy standing there as Guns N' Roses. So it's tough to let go of that.

Brando: It is. I get it from a lot of different perspectives. So I'm not going to judge because there are people like, "Oh, I wish Chinese Democracy was called something else, but it's... I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if that's like his life and who's to say that a band can't evolve and change forms? I guess, I don't know. You're dealing with a logo as I point to my hat. It's kind of like a jersey, a logo of a team. Is Babe Ruth no longer on the Yankees? Derek Jeter is no longer on the Yankees. I know it's not a perfect analogy. So is he reinventing this thing? So and who's to say that he can't do that? Obviously he did. So obviously there's a lot to discuss. Hence doing a podcast about it. Well, I can't wait until the next one with you, Doug. And also, I can't wait until the next random phone call that you give me. When you asked about... Do you still have a harsh feeling? Not harsh feelings, very passionate feelings about Limp Bizkit and Fred Durst?

DG: I love Fred, I love him. I do. Look, I mean, I got screwed hardcore out of managing Fred, but Fred was doing something that I don't remember anybody else doing back then. And I thought that it was fantastic. I mean, I think Borland is an amazing guitarist. And you know, I would love to sit down with Fred sometimes. Honestly, and just go, you know what? You are so misled as to what really transpired back when you were first getting signed, because I got screwed.

Brando: So you were supposed to manage him or Limp Bizkit?

DG: Well, the whole band, yeah.

Brando: Wow. Cause I remember when I first, that's when I first started in radio in college, you know, that's when Limp Bizkit broke and they were different than everybody.

[...]

Excerpts from Ultimate Guitar:
--------------------------------------

During an appearance on Appetite for Distortion, former Guns N' Roses manager Doug Goldstein - who managed the group from 1991 to 2008 - discussed Axl Rose's decision to continue the band after the classic lineup broke up.

When the interviewer said that "Axl's been keeping it alive all these years," Goldstein responded (transcribed by UG):

"That was one of the arguments that Axl and I had when Slash left: I didn't think that he should call it Guns N' Roses anymore. And he disagreed with me. I thought that he should've called it - I don't know, Axl Rose, something with his name. I don't even know if I came up with something, I just said, 'I don't know if you should taint what you had in the original name by using it again.' And you've heard my argument, he was the only guy standing there as Guns N' Roses, so it's tough to let go of that."

It's just fascinating how it's taken on a narrative that Axl is a bad guy...

"The last time I talked to him it was because I've done a podcast with you, and he said, 'Stop saying nice things about me.' He doesn't like it when people say nice things about him in the press. His argument is, 'Did anybody ask Picasso what his art meant? I'm an artist, I'm not interested in public opinion. I don't really care, and I don't want anybody trying to change public opinion, I really don't give a shit what anybody thinks.' Fair enough."

He seems to a completely different person now, but at the time, lashing out at the media, it seemed like it bothered him at times.

"When it's unjust... But again, he's lashing out at people that don't know him or in a very high public opinion, and so, again, people of very high public opinion, making defamatory comments, that is a little different than fans."

Was Axl into serial killers?

"You know what, here's where the whole [Charles] Manson thing came from: 'Everybody thinks I'm a freak and I'm a weirdo just like they think Manson is a freaking weirdo, so I'll wear a mask and shirt, I'll do a Manson song because everybody thinks I'm a cook anyway.' In my opinion, I don't think he ever was out to glamorize what Charles Manson had done in any way, shape, or form. My second wife is the only eyewitness ever to one of our country's biggest serial killers - they called him the Dating Game Killer, Rodney James Alcala. Through DNA, they've linked him to 130 murders, rape, and murders. One was her friend, and she's the only eyewitness ever."

Finished with this.