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APPETITE FOR DISCUSSION
Welcome to Appetite for Discussion -- a Guns N' Roses fan forum!

Please feel free to look around the forum as a guest, I hope you will find something of interest. If you want to join the discussions or contribute in other ways then you need to become a member. We especially welcome anyone who wants to share documents for our archive or would be interested in translating or transcribing articles and interviews.

Registering is free and easy.

Cheers!
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Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989

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Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989 Empty Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989

Post by Soulmonster Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:10 pm

Came across this promotional poster for the December 17 show on the Stones' tour. Apparently, "Axel Rose" was there, too. Izzy is not mentioned.

Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989 Cedar_10

Here's the performance:



Izzy would later talk about the performance:

The Stones were asking me: 'Which song are you doing?' We'd chosen 'Salt of the Earth'. Nobody knew it! And I'm thinking: 'Fuck, you guys wrote it over 20 years ago! You must remember some of it!' So we go back in this little trailer and Mick Jagger's got a tape-player and he's listening to it, with the lyrics written on a piece of paper in front of him. And I'm sitting there playing acoustic guitar with Keith Richards and I'm thinking 'This is sooo cool!' 'Cos we're playing it thru' and Charlie and Bill Wyman are sitting there, listening to it. And I'm just flipping out, thinking 'God, this is sooo wild!' Finally we finished the song. They all turned to me and said: 'So where's your singer?' And I didn't have an answer! Axl was late again. Real late [VOX, October 1991].
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Post by Blackstar Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 pm

MTV news report about this:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3599-1989-12-17-mtv-news-report-axl-izzy-slash

It includes an excerpt from the press conference the Rolling Stones did before the pay-per-view show:
Journalist: Why have Guns N’ Roses when there’s been so much controversy over their lyrics with references to blacks, and homosexuals, and immigrants?

Mick Jagger: Because we want to appeal more to the gay/black market.

(Laughter in the room)
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Post by Blackstar Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:54 pm

And an article in Philadelphia Inquirer, December 18, 1989, which contains excerpts from the Stones press conference including the Mick Jagger quote above:

Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989 1989_110
Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989 1989_111

---------

Axl and Izzy guested at three Stones shows in Atlantic City (Dec. 17, 19 & 20) but only the Dec. 19th one was pay-per-view.
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Post by Soulmonster Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:58 pm

Blackstar wrote:MTV news report about this:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3599-1989-12-17-mtv-news-report-axl-izzy-slash

It includes an excerpt from the press conference the Rolling Stones did before the pay-per-view show:

Journalist: Why have Guns N’ Roses when there’s been so much controversy over their lyrics with references to blacks, and homosexuals, and immigrants?

Mick Jagger: Because we want to appeal more to the gay/black market.

(Laughter in the room)

That's a hilarious quip considering all the bad press GN'R was getting at the time.
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Post by ludurigan Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 am

Soulmonster wrote:
Blackstar wrote:MTV news report about this:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3599-1989-12-17-mtv-news-report-axl-izzy-slash

It includes an excerpt from the press conference the Rolling Stones did before the pay-per-view show:


Journalist: Why have Guns N’ Roses when there’s been so much controversy over their lyrics with references to blacks, and homosexuals, and immigrants?

Mick Jagger: Because we want to appeal more to the gay/black market.

(Laughter in the room)


That's a hilarious quip considering all the bad press GN'R was getting at the time.

I had no idea Mick had said that at the time!

Probably one of the very few people in the world who could have said that and get away with it (as he apparently did, given the "laughter in the room" he got after saying it!)

It is funny to note that answering that kind of question about another band must have seemed like a walk in the park to Mick, given that just about 10 years earlier reporters were asking him about his band being racist and sexist

And he was giving even wilder replies




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Post by schizo Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 pm

I had my mom buy this Stones PPV because it was either advertised, or rumored that Axl & Izzy were making an appearance. Knowing that GNR had in earlier years crushed Jumpin Jack Flash, I remember being a bit disappointed at the song choice when they finally played the show.
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Post by ludurigan Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:54 am

schizo wrote:I had my mom buy this Stones PPV because it was either advertised, or rumored that Axl & Izzy were making an appearance. Knowing that GNR had in earlier years crushed Jumpin Jack Flash, I remember being a bit disappointed at the song choice when they finally played the show.

Nice story! A question: how did you know that GN'R played Jumping Jack Flash in October 1989? Did you have access to some bootlegs? You went to some of their early shows?

I only found out about the covers that they played in the early days in 1991 I guess!
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Post by schizo Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:46 am

We had bootlegs of their early demos and live shows with Jumpin Jack Flash, Heartbreak Hotel etc…
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Post by ludurigan Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:32 am

schizo wrote:We had bootlegs of their early demos and live shows with Jumpin Jack Flash, Heartbreak Hotel etc…
Nice!

I remember being absolutely fascinated when I found those... each new bootleg was a revelation... so great!
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Post by schizo Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:48 am

I remember in 1988 getting some rock magazines where you could find pen pals interested in the same bands. So I found this one girl who sent me all these rehearsal tapes with Don’t Cry, November Rain (piano and guitar), etc. Basically a lot of the stuff that just came out on this box set. Plus the 86 & 87 demos. So we were digging on all this stuff way before Illusions came out. I still prefer those raw, stripped down demos! I dig some UYI but was unhappy with the slick production. The internet is amazing, but some of the excitement of the “treasure hunt” is gone from the old tape trading days.
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Post by ludurigan Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:00 am

schizo wrote:I remember in 1988 getting some rock magazines where you could find pen pals interested in the same bands. So I found this one girl who sent me all these rehearsal tapes with Don’t Cry, November Rain (piano and guitar), etc. Basically a lot of the stuff that just came out on this box set. Plus the 86 & 87 demos. So we were digging on all this stuff way before Illusions came out. I still prefer those raw, stripped down demos! I dig some UYI but was unhappy with the slick production. The internet is amazing, but some of the excitement of the “treasure hunt” is gone from the old tape trading days.

yeah! those are fascinating indeed. feel the same about the illusions production... I am hopeful that some raw recordings for those sessions will surface some day... I would love to listen to the original Izzy recordings that were (by some accounts) replaced by Slash in the final studio version... Also would love to listen to early versions of the songs from Chicago 1989 sessions and all the other sessions they did 1989-1990... and even the 1987 appetite sessions where they reportedly wrote/arranged/played you could be mine (and probably many others UYI tracks)... I believe there is so much stuff that hasn't surfaced from those days...

yeah, it felt like treasuure hunting to find those boots... I remember there was this record store place where the owner had a huge list of rock recordings from the most popular rock bands... and he charged what would be today 2 or 3 dollars I guess to record a 60 minutes cassette tape...

You didn't know which songs would come on the tape as this guy didn't really have a tracklist for most of the tapes, he just had the "name" of the recording... stuff like "Metal Petals", "44 Caliber Horticulture"... And then you would pay the guy, go home, get back to his store a few days later, pick the tape, go straight to home and press play and these new songs would play... oh fuck that was so great
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Post by Soulmonster Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:43 am

I just read about the acoustic rehearsal over two nights the band did in late 1989 or early 1990, which Slash would mention as an important moment to move forward with material for the UYIs. Apparently, they had been struggling with the material up to that point, but that acoustic session really pushed things forward. The whole band was there, except for a drummer (could have been after Steven was fired). I wonder if someone recorded those sessions? There must be lots of early versions of songs on various tapes. Izzy and Duff probably have a lot of such tapes with very early versions of songs, recordings of rehearsals, early jamming and putting together verses and choruses. Probably not something they could market but I would pay lots to hear them.
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Post by ludurigan Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:30 pm

Exactly, exactly, exactly!!!

I believe there is a recording of that acoustic rehearsal and many other rehearsals and writing sessions for sure! Slash has said that he records his ideas all the time. Every band has a guy that likes to record this type of stuff, some for "archiving" purposes, others just to be able to remember the ideas later... Of course that maybe they didn't record all their writing sessions but i am prety sure they recorded A LOT of them!  

Can you begin to imagine how absolutely mind blowing it should be to listen to those four guys playing THE ILLUSION SONGS IN ACOUSTIC FORMAT???

Wow, I can not even begin to imagine how absolutely wonderful this has got to be!

This is exactly the kind of material that still hasn't surfaced for GN'R and that probably does exist in someone's hands, yes, I definitely believe that (some of) it exists!

I follow the Rolling Stones too (not as much as I follow GN'R ha!) and there is a HUGE, MONSTRUOUS amount of this type of material circulating among the fans.

It fits exactly your words: "very early versions of songs, recordings of rehearsals, early jamming and putting together verses and choruses"...

And it seems like more and more stuff keeps surfacing like every few months. It's INSANE! And it is GLORIOUS!

For you to have an idea, a few weeks back someone shared about 4-5 hours of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards early writing sessions -- sooo early! just the two at home or something... There is so much stuff like that for the Rolling Stones circulating that for a said song you may have like 4 or 5 (or more!) recordings done on different places and dates that show the complete "evolution" of the song... It is so fucking great to listen to this kind of stuff.

AND the coolest thing about this type of recordings is that usually there is a LOT of never-heard material, stuff that the bands just abandons in a half-finished or close-to-finished form.

I can't even BEGIN to imagine how many fantastic ideas  for songs the GN'R guys abandoned along the way. Pretty much every band does it, and there is no reason to be any different with Guns n' Roses, actually I think there is reason to believe that they have a LOT of leftover material, specially given that the band has got four songwriters!

That has got to be the Holy Grail of "unknown" GN'R music.

Since AAxl reportedly didn't go to (many? most of the?) rehearsals, I don't think there may be a lot of Axl on these writing sessions. The bulk of it must be the band jamming on Izzy's and Slash's ideas in instrumental format, with maybe Izzy singing part of it. Nonetheless it should be fantastic...

I truly hope that one day we will have a chance to listen to those recordings!
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Post by schizo Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:50 am

No, Axl was talking about their performance when the whole band opened for the Stones in L.A. This other pay per view was just Axl & Izzy on stage doing a song with the Stones.
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Post by ludurigan Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:45 pm

axl says a lot of crap. a lot of crap. don't follow it. don't take it as if it was the truth. he was the best singer in the world in the best-ever rock n roll band but it seems sometimes that he didn't learn anything from it. worse than that: it seems like he has absolutely no clue of what makes (made) GNR greatness. it is actually very disheartening to realize how little he understands the GNR magic -- and also how little he understands about what it means to be a good/great rock band. he should know better, way better, but he seems to be completely oblivious to all of that
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Post by ludurigan Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:12 pm

Guns N'Roses Fan wrote:
But Duff and Slash have both praised Axl for how honest he is and Duff has said that Axl just can't lie. So that means everything Axl has said is the truth then. Razz

Rolling Stones perform with Axl and Izzy in December 1989 Lularindo
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Post by Soulmonster Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:05 am

Guns N'Roses Fan wrote:
ludurigan wrote:axl says a lot of crap. a lot of crap. don't follow it. don't take it as if it was the truth. he was the best singer in the world in the best-ever rock n roll band but it seems sometimes that he didn't learn anything from it. worse than that: it seems like he has absolutely no clue of what makes (made) GNR greatness. it is actually very disheartening to realize how little he understands the GNR magic -- and also how little he understands about what it means to be a good/great rock band. he should know better, way better, but he seems to be completely oblivious to all of that


But Duff and Slash have both praised Axl for how honest he is and Duff has said that Axl just can't lie. So that means everything Axl has said is the truth then. Razz

It's not a "lie" to say that a show was bad. That's a subjective opinion.
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Post by Soulmonster Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:02 am

Guns N'Roses Fan wrote:
Soulmonster wrote:

Guns N'Roses Fan wrote:


ludurigan wrote:axl says a lot of crap. a lot of crap. don't follow it. don't take it as if it was the truth. he was the best singer in the world in the best-ever rock n roll band but it seems sometimes that he didn't learn anything from it. worse than that: it seems like he has absolutely no clue of what makes (made) GNR greatness. it is actually very disheartening to realize how little he understands the GNR magic -- and also how little he understands about what it means to be a good/great rock band. he should know better, way better, but he seems to be completely oblivious to all of that




But Duff and Slash have both praised Axl for how honest he is and Duff has said that Axl just can't lie. So that means everything Axl has said is the truth then. Razz



It's not a "lie" to say that a show was bad. That's a subjective opinion.


No, I was saying if Axl said they were terrible, that must mean they really were terrible since he can't lie and is honest. Razz

It only means that he, at that time, thought they were terrible. It doesn't mean they were terrible. That's a subjective opinion.
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