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If Melissa is a band member, wasn't Teddy ZigZag a band member too?

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If Melissa is a band member, wasn't Teddy ZigZag a band member too? Empty If Melissa is a band member, wasn't Teddy ZigZag a band member too?

Post by Soulmonster on Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:05 pm

Title says it all, really.

I guess one could argue that back in 1991/1992 GN'R was recognized as 5 guys and hence the additional backup singers, keyboard player and horn section was just touring musicians and not part of the band, per se. Whereas today, Melissa replaced Pitman who was a band member (had writing credits and was featured on CD and had played with the band for a long time), and hence she is a proper band member. Additionally, GN'R has gone from being a band partly defined by the members to today being more of Axl and whoever he invites to come along. So while we would object to considering Teddy a band member back in 1991, we don't really have much problems with it today with Melissa, because the whole concept of GN'R being those five guys have been diluted to a place where it has no meaning anymore. But objectively, there is little difference between what Teddy and Melissa do, they are both only touring musicians playing second keyboard (so far).
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Post by Blackstar on Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:35 pm

I think that already in 1992, after Izzy left, GnR had ceased to be a band of "5 guys," in Axl's mind at least.
This quote is very telling for me:
DEL: Is [Gilby] a "member" of Guns N' Roses?

AXL: This "member" thing is quite interesting, I read in an interview where Matt [Sorum, drummer] said that if he didn't get made a member, he wasn't going to be in Guns N' Roses. The truth of the matter is, Matt's a member of GN'R, but it doesn't really mean anything. It's kind of like a clubhouse/gang thing. We're all members of this gang. What it boils down to is, whose yard is the tree house in? Matt's a member of GN'R, and his opinions are taken into consideration. As far as that's concerned, Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses. But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family.

DEL: Do you think Matt's gonna be pissed when he reads this?

AXL: It would be nice if he wasn't. I love everybody in this band. It's kicking ass and feels really warm and really cool onstage. At this point it's the 12 of us that get onstage and f?!king go all out.
https://tinyurl.com/yavprxeg

What he seemingly says here is that, as he saw it, there was a clear distinction between partners/owners/"actual" members (Axl, Slash, Duff) and the "other" members, which included Matt, Gilby, Dizzy as well as Teddy, the backup singers and the horn players.
So, basically, he put Matt, Gilby and Dizzy in the same category (as far as "membership" goes) as Teddy. The difference is, I guess, that the drummer and the second guitarist were indispensable outside the tour, whereas the rest were touring members and/or just "added" something.

I think this is, more or less, how it works today.
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Post by Uli on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:42 am

Much as I view Teddy ZigZag as a member of the old "live band", Melissa is a member of the "live band" now. We'll have to wait and see if she'll contribute anything to a new album (knowing how it went with CD, she will be there and create some noises)...
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Post by ludurigan on Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:54 am

@Soulmonster wrote:Title says it all, really.

I guess one could argue that back in 1991/1992 GN'R was recognized as 5 guys and hence the additional backup singers, keyboard player and horn section was just touring musicians and not part of the band, per se. Whereas today, Melissa replaced Pitman who was a band member (had writing credits and was featured on CD and had played with the band for a long time), and hence she is a proper band member. Additionally, GN'R has gone from being a band partly defined by the members to today being more of Axl and whoever he invites to come along. So while we would object to considering Teddy a band member back in 1991, we don't really have much problems with it today with Melissa, because the whole concept of GN'R being those five guys have been diluted to a place where it has no meaning anymore. But objectively, there is little difference between what Teddy and Melissa do, they are both only touring musicians playing second keyboard (so far).  

I strongly disagree with the definitions of who is and who is not a band member and how Guns n' Roses is viewed.

Viewed where? In the internet GN'R forums? In the real world?

Viewed by whom? By Axl Rose fans? By Chinese Democracy fans? Or by (mostly casual, i can give you that) rock fans from the real world who (unlike us, GN'R forum people) do not obsess on GN'R on their daily lives?

Based on how my friends from the real world outside of Guns n' Roses internet forums see GNR, i can say that:

1) Pretty much anyone was a kid when GN'R existed and who grew up with Guns n' Roses will always recognize Guns n' Roses as Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven and Duff. Seriously, this is not even a question. Most casual fans know that everyone left at some point and that Axl got alone and hired new "band members" and nobody knows who these people are and nobody cares.

2) Axl's band (2001-2014) is viewed as the ultimate joke in the real world. Nobody outside hardcore Chinese Democracy fans see Axl's band as "Guns n' Roses", everybody knows that it was just Axl with some musicians that nobody cared before Axl hired them and that nobody cares after Axl fired them.

Having said that, I strongly disagree that Chris Pittman was ever a GN'R member. This is an arbitrary and false statement. He was, in fact, a band member of another band, the Axl Rose led and owned band that decided to present itself to the world as Guns n' Roses from 2001-2014 for purely business/practical reasons and did so until it stop working (i.e. until people were not buying it anymore, in every sense of the world "buy" that you can think of)

I also strongly disagree that "the whole concept of GN'R being those five guys have been diluted to a place where it has no meaning anymore"

This is utterly absurd and false.

Whatever is left of Guns n' Roses today -- this Axl-Slash-Duff band that presents itself as Guns n' Roses and that attracted millions of people on the most lucrative tour in memory -- is nothing but a cheap, low re-enactment/imitation of the Axl-Izzy-Slash-Steven-Duff Guns n' Roses.

This band tries really bad (and fails miserably) to emulate the spirit, the music and the power of Guns n' Roses.

And it only exists because of the spirit, the songs and the image of Axl-Izzy-Slash-Steven-Duff Guns n' Roses.

Which is far from diluted.

On the contrary.
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Post by Soulmonster on Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:03 pm

@ludurigan wrote:
@Soulmonster wrote:Title says it all, really.

I guess one could argue that back in 1991/1992 GN'R was recognized as 5 guys and hence the additional backup singers, keyboard player and horn section was just touring musicians and not part of the band, per se. Whereas today, Melissa replaced Pitman who was a band member (had writing credits and was featured on CD and had played with the band for a long time), and hence she is a proper band member. Additionally, GN'R has gone from being a band partly defined by the members to today being more of Axl and whoever he invites to come along. So while we would object to considering Teddy a band member back in 1991, we don't really have much problems with it today with Melissa, because the whole concept of GN'R being those five guys have been diluted to a place where it has no meaning anymore. But objectively, there is little difference between what Teddy and Melissa do, they are both only touring musicians playing second keyboard (so far).  


I strongly disagree with the definitions of who is and who is not a band member and how Guns n' Roses is viewed.

Viewed where? In the internet GN'R forums? In the real world?

Viewed by whom? By Axl Rose fans? By Chinese Democracy fans? Or by (mostly casual, i can give you that) rock fans from the real world who (unlike us, GN'R forum people) do not obsess on GN'R on their daily lives?

Based on how my friends from the real world outside of Guns n' Roses internet forums see GNR, i can say that:

1) Pretty much anyone was a kid when GN'R existed and who grew up with Guns n' Roses will always recognize Guns n' Roses as Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven and Duff. Seriously, this is not even a question. Most casual fans know that everyone left at some point and that Axl got alone and hired new "band members" and nobody knows who these people are and nobody cares.

2) Axl's band (2001-2014) is viewed as the ultimate joke in the real world. Nobody outside hardcore Chinese Democracy fans see Axl's band as "Guns n' Roses", everybody knows that it was just Axl with some musicians that nobody cared before Axl hired them and that nobody cares after Axl fired them.

Having said that, I strongly disagree that Chris Pittman was ever a GN'R member. This is an arbitrary and false statement. He was, in fact, a band member of another band, the Axl Rose led and owned band that decided to present itself to the world as Guns n' Roses from 2001-2014 for purely business/practical reasons and did so until it stop working (i.e. until people were not buying it anymore, in every sense of the world "buy" that you can think of)

I also strongly disagree that "the whole concept of GN'R being those five guys have been diluted to a place where it has no meaning anymore"

This is utterly absurd and false.

Whatever is left of Guns n' Roses today -- this Axl-Slash-Duff band that presents itself as Guns n' Roses and that attracted millions of people on the most lucrative tour in memory -- is nothing but a cheap, low re-enactment/imitation of the Axl-Izzy-Slash-Steven-Duff Guns n' Roses.

This band tries really bad (and fails miserably) to emulate the spirit, the music and the power of Guns n' Roses.

And it only exists because of the spirit, the songs and the image of Axl-Izzy-Slash-Steven-Duff Guns n' Roses.

Which is far from diluted.

On the contrary.

If you don't accept any other lineups than the AFD lineup as "Guns N' Roses" then this discussion wasn't really for you, was it?

And if you are going to use this forum as a battle ground for your endless fight against any other version of the band than the one you prefer, and inject this opinion anywhere you can, then you will find I will quickly lose my patience with it.
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