2021.05.05 - On Tour with Brian Ray - Matt Sorum On Tour with Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver and The Cult

Transcript:

Brian Ray: Well, so I was thinking about it, and in some ways, for a lot of people out there, you for them would embody the sex drugs and rock and roll stereotype that a lot of people have of rock stars. And you just had a book come out that tells a lot of juicy stories, but we're gonna try and get to a few of them there as a teaser to the book. There's no way we can cover everything, but we'll get to what we can.

Matt: It was, yeah, it's been a wild ride so far. The wild ride is continuing, I hope, but maybe not in that aspect, in a different way.

BR: It's a new wild ride. So tell us a little bit about the book, its title and it just was released. Tell us about it a little bit.

Matt: Yeah, the book's entitled Double Talkin' Jive and you know, interesting title based on a song that was recorded on Use Your Illusion 1 and 2 from the group I was in called Guns N' Roses.

BR: I've heard of them.

Matt: Yeah. So, my book really tells a lot of tales of the trials and tribulations of being in the business. And as you know, I've been in a bunch of bands. So, you know, the hills and valleys. A lot of hills and valleys, like a lot of super highs and a lot of super lows. And so, Double Talkin' Jive is sort of my way of saying, hey, this is going to be really a wild ride. It's going to have a dark undercurrent of kind of, you know, the underneath underbelly of what people really don't know. I mean, they look at a band like Guns N' Roses and they say, oh, those guys just must be partying. And you know, they think he just got there by accident. You know, you didn't have to work for it. You just like I'm in a band. He's a rock star. He's like, whoa. You know, it's like, well, no, actually getting there. It was a lot of hard work. And then when I got in that band and in the book, I talk about, you know, my drug addiction escalated based on the fact that in those days, being in Guns N' Roses was what I felt like being on a pirate ship. It was like, it was like. Yeah, ho, ho, ho, you know. And I felt like I had to do it. It was almost like the old expression, waving the flag for rock and roll. It's like, I'm in this band. First thing I did is went and got my first tattoo, you know, because they were tattooed all over their bodies. And I wanted to be part of the gang. I was like, I come from The Cult, this British band, which we'll talk about in a minute, but once I joined GN'R, it was just off the chain, like go in, go in hard, or you're not in the band.

BR: You wouldn't be the right fit.

Matt: Yeah, and I remember being on the road one night, it was a Sunday night, we were in Poughkeepsie, New York. And here we'd been on the road like six months and pretty much every night was a party and I thought maybe I'll sleep tonight, you know. It's Poughkeepsie, there couldn't possibly be anything happening, you know. So I'm in my room and I get a call from the keyboard player Dizzy Reed, which we can talk a little bit about later. He calls me, "Matt, get down to my room." You know, and I remember going down the hallway and opening the door and it was like a scene out of Caligula, you know? It was just like, "What the hell?" I mean, you know, and he rounded up like all the local party people, because as we know, being in a band, we're on the road forever, but for them, it's the greatest night of their lives.

BR: That's right, one night only for them.

Matt: Yeah.

BR: For us, it's another night.

Matt: Yeah, you're coming to town and everyone wants to celebrate with you. So what are you gonna do? I mean, you're a young man, you're in a band, you know, you do it. And especially in that band, I really felt obligated to, you know?

BR: Yeah, it might be the avatar of all the rock era that might embody partying rock stars more than any other band.

Matt: I think it came from the guys that came before us, right? So we grew up with great bands. Like you look at the Stones, you go, I wanna be like the Stones, I mean, like Keith. And then of course, here I was, a drummer, and who were my favorite drummers? John Bonham and Keith Moon, who both died of alcoholism. But that didn't seem to register.

[...]

Matt: And when you're out on the road, there was no information cause it was no internet. So I used to say more in three area codes away. Let's go. Right. It was like, even if you, even if you had somebody that you had to answer to, they would, how would they know what you're doing? They wouldn't cause it was none of this.

BR: That's right. There's no sort of retweeting pictures of you in that hotel room of Dizzy's.

Matt: Yeah, people ask me what happened to rock and roll. What do you think happened? I said, well, I think the Internet screwed us up in some respects. You know, we have to look at the old days and, you know, the mystique of rock and roll. When we used to think about Led Zeppelin in the cast, that's right. You'd be like, oh, they're in a castle and they're writing, you know, this epic album.

BR: Yeah. Can you imagine them like? John Bottom tweeting a picture of his mic set up for the Levee Breaks. It's not cool. We're like, no, we don't wanna know, right? And there's no evidence because of the occurrence of there was no internet back then.

Matt: Yeah, so as a young man, I guess that's sort of the way I looked at it. And then once I got into the band, you know, it was no holds barred. And I'm glad I did it that way. I mean... And in the book, it'll describe sort of the transition of what happens and what goes to the demise of GN'R, which when we broke up in '97, everyone started to leave. But it wasn't based around clear thought. You know, it wasn't like...

BR: I'm getting that.

Matt: Everything was a little hot. Like what decision would you make if you were like a little more sobered up?

BR: It had a careening quality to it. Well, let's get into some of the early years. I've read that you dropped out of high school to be a drummer and got caught up pretty seriously in the drug scene, selling pot and smuggling cocaine. That's some heavy shit.

Matt: Yeah, the book goes deeper into it, but basically I just didn't want to have a real job. So, you know, where I grew up in Orange County, Dana Point Harbor was sort of mecca for smuggling. And if you look at where I grew up, I just would know all these guys that would be driving nice cars, and they were my friends. And I'd be like, what do you do, man? You got, it's like, well, I just, I sell weed. So in between like gigs and stuff, I was like struggling financially. Obviously I was making a couple hundred bucks a week, playing Top 40 or playing with Greg or getting a little session. I meet this guy, he says he wants to start a band. And wants me to be his drummer and he's gonna pay me a salary, but we're only gonna play once a month. I'm like, I'm in, what do I gotta do? So in the book he describes this guy and I ended up finding out he's a big cocaine smuggler and that's how he's paying the bill. And we're booked out in like for months at like Baby-O Studios. Remember the old athletic club? We would go book that place and he's like, you produced the album and there's endless flows of cash. And then there was a lot of cocaine involved. So he offers to get me in on the smuggling thing and I end up working for him, trafficking. Kilos of stuff overseas. It's got pretty crazy. If you read the book, it goes into when I get out, which is the perfect time. I just had an intuitive feeling that something was gonna go wrong very quickly.

BR: Okay, let's just have just a snapshot of one of your sort of main deals that sort of tipped you off that this might not be the career that you're gonna keep forever.

Matt: Well, you know, it's interesting when I talk about this because, you know, for me now, I look back and I go, whoa. It's not something to brag about, but I did do it. So I have to be truthful. And then when I wrote my book, the thing I wanted to be was honest and I wanted to kind of speak through the time that it happened. So my voice changes throughout the book. You know, I have to bring back... I can't just be like totally clean about it. It's the way it went down. So I would literally strap two kilos of cocaine to my body, very much like the film, Midnight Express. And in those days, when you went through security checkpoints at the airport, there was-

BR: -no TSA back then.

Matt: No. You just walked through.

BR: But there were dogs once in a while.

Matt: Well, there was dogs and there was these guys that would watch you from behind these little pedestals that would look at you. So my deal was don't do anything before you get on the plane. But I used to use this large exercise, like Velcro apparatus that they used to use. It looked like a wetsuit and I would get literally put on a baggy shirt and large jacket and I would get on the plane and most of my drops are Hawaii and I would do that flight and I would take a surfboard with me because I did surf.

BR: Because you kind of look like a surfer.

Matt: Yeah, I had longer hair and I would maybe go to the tanning booth if I was like, because I was partying pretty hard in those days. I wasn't out in the sun a lot. Yeah, like never. So I would get on the plane like the surfer kid, fly to Hawaii and I would land there and I'd go to Waikiki and meet these guys and pick up the cash. And I'd get back on the plane usually carrying about 25 grand cash wrapped around me and go back and drop the money and get my couple grand out of the deal. And that would get me by for whatever amount of time. And then towards the end of that series of jobs that I did for that guy, not that I was doing enough drugs to get paranoid in that way, but yeah, probably. I was like, we're being watched and all that. So I basically said, I've got to get out of this, right? And exactly around that time, I get the call to go and audition for The Cult. When I left, the guy that took my place on the smuggling thing got arrested going over. He spent 20 years in federal penitentiary. He ended up getting out in 10 and it was international smuggling charge, which that could have been me.

BR: And was the guy who brought you into it, was he one of the people that were arrested or just the guy who took your place doing the run?

Matt: The guy who took my place doing the run and he didn't rat anybody out, thank God, because we were all freaking out. Like, you know, he's just going to dump on all of us and we're going to be... But he never did rat us out. He did his time. And every day I was waiting for a knock on the door for a while. But luckily at that point, I moved back to Hollywood. I was living down at Long Beach. And I auditioned for The Cult. I remember, I don't know if you ever had this experience, but you'd get a gig, but maybe you didn't know if he'd completely how to get you had to wait a little bit of time. So I got real superstitious about telling anybody because Ian Asbury hadn't signed off on me yet. So everyone would go, hey, how are the audition going? I go, I don't know, man. Even though Billy Duffy told me I had the gig. And I just remember in those days, you know, dress code was very important. My buddy Terry Nails and Steve Jones, he said, don't wear your cowboy boots. You know, Steve Jones, we're all black. So I remember, you know, do something about your hair, you know, kind of it's a little too poofy. Yeah, it was a little bit big for the call. Yeah, the cult was-

BR: -like more goth. It was called The Death Cult, originally.

Matt: Yeah. The Death Cult, Southern Death Cult. So they had this Gothic kind of thing. And, you know, so I dressed like that and went in there. And then I waited for like two weeks to [?]. [?] and Asbury came back from London and we did one more rehearsal. And he came in, he looked at me and he turned around. I go into detail on the book, but he turned around and looked at me and he said, "You got the gig, but just don't smile so much."

BR: Yeah. That's perfect. I mean, it is the Southern Death Cult. Yeah. You want to make sure you don't smile too much.

Matt: [?] And I think that was the kind of the time when I became the kind of drummer that could morph into some different guys because I needed to really sort of just fit the bill. Right? And in entirety, like the look, how I was gonna be in the band. And I got that gig and within like four or five days of rehearsal, we were on the road with Metallica. The girls that would come to our show were different than the regular rock girls. They were usually gothic, you know, black hair and like red lips and they all loved Ian, of course. But he was not available, you know, he was just this very sort of behind the scenes lead singer guy, always had a girlfriend. So me and Billy Duffy just basically would kind of purvey that, you know.

BR: You had the feel to yourself.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, you want to meet the singer. Okay. Or whatever we had to say.

BR: Even if you had no intentions of introducing.

Matt: You know how it goes out there.

BR: He's not here. Come back to my bus.

Matt: There was so much fun and me and Billy Duffy hit it off and we ended up becoming cohorts, you know, on that particular and that was my first real entry to the ow on a tour bus. You know, there's catering, I have a dressing room. I've never really experienced that before because I'd gone through clubs and crappy tours and bands and here I was. Now, you get on that bus for the first time and you remember, you're like, I've arrived. And I remember the first time I went out, we were in Vancouver, Canada, I'll never forget it because I'm backstage and there's like some catered sushi thing. I'm like, what? Like, sushi? You know, I never even had sushi. You know, I couldn't afford it. And there was Steven Tyler and Motley Crue's there because in those days, that was the mecca for bands recording. Remember Bruce Fairburn and Bob Rock all recorded in Vancouver. So here they were, it was my first show. And I was just like, oh, I was pretty nervous. I remember, I think I played the set double time because it was so [?]. You know, it's like, wow, that went by really quick. You know, it was like, we-

BR: Did they pull you over and have a word with you? Matt, you might want to calm down. Just bring it back and on.

Matt: Watch the tempo, yeah. I mean, in my mind, it went really fast and I've seen like stuff where the band had a good meter to it, The Cult was probably the best fit for me as a drummer, I guess. People say that still to this day.

BR: Let me ask you this. Did Ian and Billy of The Cult, did they ever haze you as the new guy? Did you get any shit from them?

Matt: They did weird shit when we'd go to Europe, because I'd never really been to Europe before. Here I was, this kid from California.

BR: And they're both British?

Matt: Yeah, they're British. They would do weird shit like, well, we have to exchange the money when we go over the border to Scotland. It's like, it's the same money, right? It's like, it's a little pound. And shit like that, or they would... Well, I remember being in the subway one time in Paris and we were getting tickets to get on the subway. And Ian told me to ask a lady for tickets for the, go up and get tickets for us tonight. And he told me how to say it in French. Oh no. Basically it was like. Sounds like trouble right here. Yeah, it was like suck my dick [?].

BR: So that was a long time to be on the road your first tour with them was like 185 dates or something like that in a year? So like how many nights in a row did you guys work?

Matt: We were like five, six a night. A week, I mean, yeah. And then there's a part in the book where I get walking pneumonia. You know, we were drinking a lot. I can't say I was doing as much. It was actually kind of a little bit of a good thing for me because I was a drinking band and cocaine in those days in Europe was a lot harder to get. You couldn't really find it. So that was a good thing. It kind of weaned me off a little bit. But I was drinking a lot of booze with them. They were basically beer drinkers and we partied every night. You know, we would drink and I started feeling pretty ill. I mean, as you would say, I had the shits, you know, I just did. I was like sick. I'd get up on stage and you know, you've been sick and gone stage and everything's fine when you're on stage. You feel like, oh, wow, great. This is fine. Then you come off and you're like, oh. Right. Yeah. Back to being sick again.

BR: I had food poisoning once on stage with Nicolette Larson and it was bad sushi and I had to do, they really pressed me into doing it as green as I looked and I did the whole gig sitting on a stool, just green. Yeah. And came out on stage.

Matt: Well you know, in our position being in a band, we're not the guy that can go, hey, can't do the gig tonight, you know? You just gotta keep going. And I had a bucket next to me, the whole thing, and I remember one night, it's a really funny story in the book, but you know, it was like somewhere in mid-America. I literally had to get off the drum stool and run to the bathroom in the middle of the show. I was just going to implode up there. And fucking Ian on the mic, our drummer's gone for a shat. To the audience. I'm like, come on, man. You know, can you do like a guitarist or something? You can cover me.

BR: It could have been worse, man. I was playing in Paris at the big theater there called Percy. You've probably played in the middle of Paris at Percy. Yeah. And the bass player was wearing, you know, white jeans and a white vest and he got the shit. And he ran off straight. And as he's run off, you see he didn't quite make it to the back after. For all the crowd, 17,000 people. But he came back and finished the gig because rock and roll. So let's move on to GN'R. And I guess eventually Slash and Duff saw you play with The Cult and asked you to join. That's really where it took off for you. How did that happen? Do you remember that night?

Matt: Oh, yeah, it's in the book. And I'll never forget it because we were backstage at the old Universal Amphitheater. That was our last few shows. And the gate opened and this limo pulled up and the door opened and I always say outpoured Slash and Duff. They were like... And you know, had a troupe of girls with them and it just looked so cool. Yeah. It was just the most scallywag bunch of guys I'd ever seen in my life. I mean, a whole other level from the Stones, even in those days. They were just a mess, you know? But in a very rock and roll way. I remember they kind of came pouring out of the limo and there was this like velvet rope area that they had for them, like a table. And there was a guy. They had, you know, and I was like, what the fuck, this is my gig, right? They came and like, they fucking owned the place. And in those days, they were the biggest band in the world. And they poured in there and they had their little entourage set up. And I remember I didn't even go say anything to them. But then I played the show and it was the end of the tour for The Cult. We were pretty, in those days, if you go back, I even go back and watch old videos and it was prime Cult era. You know, we were on fire, the band was great.

BR: MTV was raging there all the time.

Matt: Yeah, Ian was the guy, you know, just great. So I did that show and then I come off the road and I had no home, I was a vagabond. I had a suitcase, what do I do? I go to my mom's house in Orange County. And that's when my body completely fell out and I realized, you know when you've gotten home off the tour and then you get really sick? It's like your body says, okay.

BR: Now that you're home, it's time to-

Matt: -pay for like a month. And I ended up going, man, this I'm really something really wrong with me. And went to the doctor and he x-rayed me and said, you're, you have one whole lung full of fluid, you got walking pneumonia. I broke out in this crazy rash where I had that, that white camp, what's that stuff called?

BR: Calamine.

Matt: All over my body. I was just like, I was-

BR: And it wasn't even effective. Because the rash was coming from inside, not from outside.

Matt: Yeah. I remember, mom, mommy. She's bringing me like juice and stuff. And one day she walks in and I think I said this in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in my speech when I got there. My mom says, there's somebody named Slush on the phone. And I get on the phone with Slash and Slash says, "Hey man, this is Slash." You know, you've talked to him, he's so quiet and he's very soft spoken. I'm like, "Slash?" Like, "Yeah, from Guns N' Roses". He basically says, "Our drummer, you know, he's in rehab, doesn't look like he's gonna get out anytime soon. And we saw you play, we loved watching you play. Can you be up here to work with us on this record?" And I'm like, "When?" Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, right?

BR: And you've got walking pneumonia.

Matt: Yeah, I'm sick. I'm like, you know, where people go, man, you look great, cause I was all skinny and like, yeah, but I was not feeling it. But I'm like, I go, okay, where am I going? And they go, we'll get you an apartment at the Oakwoods.

BR: Oh, shit. That's trouble. Yeah. I've done a couple stints there. Any musician who's come through LA has done a stint at the airport. Come on.

Matt: They give me a place.

BR: The hot tub, the elevator, the pool.

Matt: I was out of control. And so they give me a place and I move up there. And I start rehearsing for the Use Your Illusion records, for the recording of the records. But I haven't told The Cult yet.

BR: So how did that go? Tell me how did that go down? Talking to The Cult about your new gig or had you assured your spot in GN'R yet?

Matt: I hadn't assured my spot. I wasn't sure quite where I was going to stand with that. If I was just going to make the record or go back to The Cult. So about a week or two went by and Slash said, hey man, let's go to my house, you know, we're going to have I'm going to have a little barbecue. You know, me and Duff are going to go up and come with us. So, you know, we would go out to the little bars and stuff, but this particular night, I went up to his house. That's when we all sat down and we would drink vodka cranberries. That was Guns N' Roses' cocktail.

BR: One of my favorites.

Matt: And a splash of cranberry, rest was vodka.

BR: Of course. Yeah. You gotta get the mixture right.

Matt: And that's when you pop the question, you know, "We want you in the band and we really like playing with you and want you to join the band. We're gonna let Steven go," blah, blah, blah. So I said, well, you know, I'm already in a band. I said, but I got, let me talk to those guys, but thank you. So I took Billy Duffy out to lunch. And I remember typical Billy Duffy, awesome, I told them what had happened and that they were gonna offer me a membership in the band. They were gonna cut me in. I said, how can I turn that down? And Billy says, "Well, if I played drums, I would take it." And then, and then I said, then, you know, thanks, Billy, I think I'm gonna do it. He says, I guess you buy lunch then. Typical Billy, I go, yeah, I'll get the lunch, okay.

BR: Classic. Well, you did ask him out for lunch, so it's kind of what you do.

Matt: The one mistake I did make in that was I didn't have the same conversation with Ian because to this day, I think he's still mad at me about it. But I always wish him happy birthday and stuff. So when I made the transition, that's when I started my journey with GN'R, which was pretty wild.

BR: And just the right time, Use Your Illusion was the biggest album in the world. That's incredible. And you were playing to crowds of 100,000 more doing massive drum solos. Were you nervous the first time? Like you, drum solo, lights, just you.

Matt: Well, I gotta tell you that happened because the craziest part was... That's when my cocaine came back pretty strong. Because I always say when I joined GN'R, it was kind of like walking into an opium den. They were all on heroin.

BR: Slithering around.

Matt: Yeah. And I said, "You guys, I don't know about this heroin thing. Try cocaine, because you guys are all like, nodding off and shit. Because in fact, I might know where you might get some." I swear to you, it's not, especially the drummer. The drummer on heroin is bad because the drummer falls asleep on the drum stool, it all falls apart. So, you know, God bless Steven, but you know, I think they got rid of him, but you know, because that particular addiction. But I said, you guys, we need to get going here, you know, because when I went in there, it was very dark sort of period of that band and they were trying to find that second album. When Axl came in and sat down on the piano and started playing November Rain. "There's pianos in this band?" I just had, I was like, "Wait a minute."

BR: "No, that is not in my rider!"

Matt: "I like that first record, that Appetite thing was killer. What's the piano," right?

BR: Yeah, very adult.

Matt: Very adult, and he had this opus, November Rain and Estranged was one song. It went on for like 20 minutes. That was one piece of music. So we started rehearsing all this music and it got very grand. It was a lot. I thought we were going to record 34 or 35 songs and we're going to do one record, 12, 13 songs. And then another big part of the book is when Axl comes into the studio and we were recording in A&M 8th where you guys, I know you recorded a lot. And Axl comes in, full regalia, headband, the whole thing, and he's got like-

BR: -Aviators on.

Matt: Yeah, just full, ready to go. He announces to us that we're gonna do two records. It's gonna be a double album. We're putting it all out. And we're all like, "What?" And he says, "But I've got the idea of how we're gonna do it." And this is the moment I realized that as crazy as Axl could be, he was a genius. And he says, "We're gonna release the album simultaneous but separate." And he had the whole reason why he wanted to do that. He says, "The covers are gonna be the same piece of art but they're gonna be different colors, volume one and volume two, and the reason I want that to be that way is that they'll be in the bin and not behind the cast register." Because if an album was over 20 bucks, remember, if it was like a-

BR: -right, good, good point. You had a little marketing thing going on.

Matt: He was just smart like that. And then he could go back to David Geffen and renegotiate the deal, and then we could tour. This thing was, we could tour for five years straight. And in those days when those albums were released, you know, I remember Duff called me and said, "Sold a million copies in one day," you know, I was like, "Wow!" And the wild ride just... From that point forward, things just got really crazy. It was like [?]

BR: Yeah, I'm just curious to like, so everyone but the drummer is on heroin, yet there's incredible chaos as if everyone's on cocaine, cause that, for those who don't know, lends itself to chaos. How did it get so chaotic?

Matt: Well, I like to say that I did get them to do more cocaine and like, you know.

BR: That's your contribution.

Matt: And Duff never really did much heroin, so he was really a big drinker. But Slash started coming around and then we, Slash always had such an amazing work ethic. I don't know if you ever heard this story about Axl showing up late to sing with the Rolling Stones. Keith Richards said, "I slept in a chandelier last night. What's your excuse? I'm here on time."

BR: Woo! Right? I love it.

Matt: "I slept in a chandelier and I'm here on time." And Slash was that guy. He could party all night, but he'd still be a rehearsal whip now. And he cracked that whip where we were like, if you're gonna party, our job is being in a rock and roll band. If we can't get here at noon, you know, that's not cool. So do what you need to do, but be here.

BR: No, that's a great story, man.

Matt: So we would rock every day and then, you know, we would do all our stuff. But, you know, if somebody got out of line, you know, it would be like... And in the book, I do get out of line a couple of times because something started happening inside me that things got so crazy and so chaotic that I completely had no control of where I was going that day. In the book, it gets kind of scary for me. And I become a guy that goes on these sort of benders and because actually I was just in a lot of fear.

BR: Did you go missing ever?

Matt: Yeah, I did.

BR: Miss a gig?

Matt: Yeah, I went missing. I went missing in the jungle of Crocus, Venezuela.

BR: For a gig that was supposed to happen in Venezuela?

Matt: Yeah, they found me on a balcony of a hotel. There's a bunch of really good, juicy ones about me going on these crazy adventures. I'll never forget it. We used to fly in the 727 MGM Grand and we all had our own bedrooms. There was five stewardesses on the plane, and of course we were all sleeping with them. You know, it was just all like, "Wow!" It was like, you know, we wanted to be the Rolling Stones' Cocksucker Blues. That's what we were doing. It was just like, you know, people rolling down the aisles of the plane while you're taking off, and pick up girls in the strip bar in Houston. "Fly with us," you know, "woo!"

Br: And forget who they were by the time you arrived?

Matt: Yeah, give them a Southwest ticket back, or you know. You know, here we were. I mean, you know, like I say in the book, I try to like, write it in the voice that was then, you know, because even looking back and talking through it, I'm like, "Wow, okay..." It was pretty hedonistic, you know, but I was a younger man. It was a different time. I never liked to think that anyone got hurt in the process as far as like girls or, you know, everybody was in the party together. You know, coming to your town.

BR: I'd say that's fair, for sure. You know? It was a time. Yeah. You know, that time has changed.

Matt: They wanted to be there, they wanted to have fun, everyone was doing the thing that was rock and roll in those days.

BR: It was exactly that.

Matt: But by the end, when that 727 landed, MGM Grant, I'll never forget it, it was like Song Remains the Same, where all the limos pull up. We literally, I remember looking at Duff going, "Oh shit," like I used to gauge my alcoholism by looking at those guys. We were all puffy. I looked back and my face was like this. Wow. I was just like, you know, it's like liquid, you know? And we poured off that plane, three and a half year tour, played around the world four times and we were cooked. And we never got back. And when we went into trying to write that next album was when it got really dark. Me and Axl finally have it out. He fires me in. And I remember I had this killer house, full rockstar pad by the Beachwood Canyon, by the Hollywood sign. 6,000 square foot pad with two elevators, recording studio, and I remember I had two black Porsches because I forgot about the first one, you know. "Oh, I've already bought it." [?] So I remember pulling in and I was producing this band, I had a full recording studio there, and that band Candlebox.

BR: Sure I remember them, weren't they on Maverick or something like that?

Matt: Yeah, they were all staying at my house because they had all these rooms. We were working on music and I walked in and I remember I had a case of beer and a bottle of Jack or something. I said, "Axl fired me and I think this time it's for real." And that was it. I got the letter from the lawyers and that was a really strange time. And in the book it talks about sort of, you know, okay, that gig's gone. Now what? I've just been in the biggest band in the world. I'm gonna follow this up. And then, you know, I get clean after that. I go through this period of coming off of that, you know, becomes... the addiction got really out of control because now it was really, let's just face it, I was afraid of what the fuck was coming next. In retrospect, I always say to people, it's like kinda like watching somebody else's movie. It was fucking out of control, but at the same time it was the greatest era of that particular band and I happened to be there. So that was a gift. And then I always say, because of that band, I've been able to navigate the rest of my life based on that's probably my highest accolade. So if people are gonna line people up and go, how many people know The Cult? Out of 10, maybe it might be two. How many people know Velvet Revolver? Maybe two. You know, Guns N' Roses, 10. So that's taken me down different paths in my life, the journey, my entrepreneurial efforts, my things that I'm doing, charity. It's all based on my legacy with these particular groups, especially GN'R.

BR: So yeah, that's cool. Those were the halcyon days, man. You're really lucky to have been a part of it. Amazing. I've heard that you mentioned Velvet Revolver was one of the best times of your career. And as a founding member, that fame came to you in another band, which rarely happens. Whereas GN'R, of course, was huge before you got there. What made the experience with Velvet Revolver so much better for you?

Matt: Well, you know, that I was equal in the band, which was cool. I was very visionary in that particular group. I was very, very respected. Duff and Slash always respected me musically and my sensibility for certain things about the music, either it was arrangement or stylistically, or production. Even fashion. I'd be like, Slash, "Wear that red shirt," or like, you know, and then when me and Scott Weiland came together, and Scott joined the group, me and him had sort of the same sensibility about taking the rock and roll and bringing it into now somehow. Making it current. Like we knew we couldn't make another Guns N' Roses record with Scott Weiland as the vocalist. We couldn't rest on our laurels and just make like a retro rock album, if you will. So we made a really serious choice of trying to compete in a modern rock and roll world. And here we were. I think I was like 40 when we launched that band, 2004. I was 44 years old. And we made a really big... Everything that went into that band was like, okay, we're all sober. We're clean. I got in really great shape. Scott was doing a lot better. We got him cleaned up.

BR: He was sober then?

Matt: Yeah. Well, we had some issues and that's in the book, but I want to go too into detail with that because there's a couple of really long ended stories. When we get him in the band, it's not completely perfect at the beginning. To put it that way. But he comes around and things are on fire. The greatest thing that happened for me with that particular band was I wrote the riff, the first song that launched the band, which was a song I wrote on guitar called Set Me Free. And I had the riff and I'll never forget playing it for Slash because *humming the melody* and I played it to Slash, know here I am, you know, if I was to play in front of you I would be nervous, you can be in front of 50,000 people with your standing there or I had to play guitar for you know you or Slash...And you know, I can bang a few chords, but here I got this riff. And Slash goes, "I really like that, accept that one note." You know, but then he came up with this other whole thing and we recorded it and we got this big soundtrack for Ang Lee's version of The Hulk. And we got this crazy licensing deal. And it was like, probably more money than I'd ever seen in my entire career, like in one fatal swoop. It was just like, what? You know, and then a publishing deal, and we got signed by RCA, Clive Davis, and it was sort of the end of the big record deals. And all of a sudden, here I was, equal. I had a publishing deal, because I had written songs. So all the things were really great, and the band, the look of the band felt right. We got the right guy to mix it, Andy Wallace. And Clive Davis was such a genius. I mean, I remember waiting five months to release the album. It was done. We had the artwork. Conceptually, we had the title Contraband. We loved the title because it was just about us. We were Contraband. You know, we were like, we created this great video, Slither, where we went in... But we had to wait. We're waiting. We were like, we waited a week. We waited another week. Why? Why are we waiting? Clive says, trust me. I remember we were doing a show in Vegas, we went to do corporate or something, and we all got called into a conference room, and it was the phone thing in the middle of the table, and Clive came on the phone, it was, I believe it was a Tuesday, and he says, "Gentlemen, I'd like to give you the great news that you have entered the billboard charts at number one." And we sold 256,000 records in the first week, and it pretty quickly jumped to platinum. And then, but that was Clive, because Clive was waiting for the week when there was no other competition to make the impact. Yeah, because the week before that it could have been Usher, like, whatever at that time.

BR: Yeah, it's beyond our pay grade, those kind of decisions.

Matt: Yeah, it was just, you know. And then trusting that he was right on all fronts because that guy's just like, that's his world. So he was a big guy in that. And then the great thing that happened was we got nominated for three Grammys. And you know, I never won a Grammy before. Guns N' Roses got nominated for a Grammy. It was the very famous year where we lost to Jethro Tull. [?] like Aqua long. I mean, what? Remember that Metallica, Guns N' Roses and Jethro Tull. And they won. They won.

BR: Yeah. Yeah. Sacrilege.

Matt: Heavy metal category. So I remember we went we won one Grammy out of that. That was the year the Green Day had the big records. The Green Day got this rock album. We were in that category. They had that crazy. So all that stuff was happening, you know, and then unfortunately during the second album, a lot of bad habits came back and there's a lot about it in the book, but I fell off the wagon after about six years being clean.

BR: So some of that same chaos that you'd experienced with GN'R started rearing its head with the Revolver. Little bit of that same chaos.

Matt: Yeah, it's just like... I don't know if it was like the feeling of being out on the road too long. We were off, the first tour was 18 months. And I remember thinking they're dangling the carrot because we're getting like big offers and we're all beat up. And things were starting to go wrong and we were starting to be tension in the band and everyone was getting back into their old habits and Scott was getting high. And it was getting weird. It was just starting to be not fun. And Slash was over it, I could tell he was over it. He was ready to just... So we basically fired Scott April 1st. We were in Amsterdam, I'll never forget it. We gave him like, we literally all got in a van and split and he got handed a notice, you're fired, basically. And it's not April Fool's, this is for real. You know, looking back on retrospect, losing Scott and stuff and looking back at him and seeing how great he really was. You know, even though he had his hiccups. Fuck, he was great.

BR: Yeah, it was a great front man, great singer.

Matt: Fuck, when he was out there some nights, I'd be just like, holy shit, man. He had all the moves, you know, he was like a little bit of Iggy Pop mixed with like Perry Farrell, mixed with Mick Jagger, mixed with, you know, he just emulated all these... Bowie.

BR: Yeah, a lot of Bowie in there. We did a gig together. We did Live Aid together in Hyde Park. Yeah. Remember that?

Matt: Yeah, speaking of freaking out. Yeah, I remember that day because there's a picture of me and right before I walk out, you know, here we are 200,000 seats and Paul reaches over and he shakes my hand and he goes, "Knock them dead." Right, and I went, I went, "Ah! Paul McCartney!" [?]  and he's standing there watching us, right? Yeah. You guys were there, but he freaked me out. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you're on stage of all times. That big deal to you because you've had that relationship. But for me, it was like, holy shit, it's a Beatle!

BR: I hear you. I didn't even look at him for the first six months on stage. I'm a member of the band and I'm literally looking down at my shoes. I don't look at him. You'll screw up. I'm sure you'll screw up if you even look at him.

Matt: Probably one of my greatest adventures recently was with Billy Gibbons. I think it really brought me back to the core of why I became a musician. Billy Gibbons is the living, breathing example of the pure vagabond traveling minstrel.

BR: Yeah, he is.

Matt: He is the real deal. And when I was on the bus with him, I was just like, I was in awe about how good I felt, just being out there again. Traveling down the highway in this bus, didn't give a shit if I had a hotel room. I was happy to be in my bunk. And the vibe was killer. We made sure that we had like, he liked soup backstage every day when we rolled in. We all had pajamas on, we told stories, we listened to music every night. And I just, it gave me a whole new renewed sense of why I started to play music in the first place. And I said, "I want to be like that guy."

BR: Right on. I mean, there's so few of them. It's like Willie Nelson, Billy Givens, you know.

Matt: And then I sort of like being a little bit older now, why do you want to do it any other way? Right? I mean, you're working with one of the greatest artists of all time and I'm sure you guys have a machine that just rolls, right? And you do your gig and you have a great time and go play these amazing, the greatest songs ever written.

BR: Yeah, it's fortunate territory, that's for damn sure. Well, this has been a blast, man. Listen, we're gonna wrap it up with a lightning round we like to call the encore. It said that tragedy plus time equals humor. What's the most embarrassing thing that's happened to you on stage? And how did you get through it?

Matt: Axl told me to stop at Giant Stadium one time and I'm supposed to watch because he would always pull out this whistle and the whistle meant we were gonna start a song called Nightrain. So I do Welcome to the Jungle *humming*, then I go, *humming* I'm there right, I'm like huge like that, right, and I didn't see Axl pick up the whistle *make intro sound to Nightrain*. And he's looking at me he goes... And I'm like, no, go, I'm in. Can we just switch it up? Everyone's tuned the same, it's not guitar change. And I look at, I think it was Gilby in those days, "Fucking start motherfucker, go!" And he's like this, like, "Nope." And I'm going for a while, and Axl goes on the mic, he goes, "Stoooop!!" [laughs] So I get up, I take the drumsticks, I just, "Motherfucking!" threw the middle of the drums and was like, "Fuck you!" And it was like... if you pull it up on YouTube I think it shows the whole scene but the audience loved it.

BR: I love it. Was that the snare drum you drove your sticks threw?

Matt: No, I drove the [?].

BR: You wouldn't need that on the next song. Do you have any pre-show rituals or superstitions that you...

Matt: Yeah, I don't do as much anymore, but I used to have a whole thing with underwear. I always had to wear red underwear. And then I had a chain that I always wore around my neck. And I would chew gum for three songs. And, but that was fucked up because the camera guys in the front always had these horrible photos. Cause they're only in the pit for three. And I'm like, yeah, I always look like shit. I'm like, oh, I wonder why. But... So the chain one time, I remember we were playing some Enormo Dome, and I had this chrome hearts chain, and I remember being halfway around in the golf cart going, hold on, I can't go on, I've got my chain. Right, and they're like, what the fuck, come on, we gotta go, I'm like, I gotta go back, I can't play.

BR: And that's the last scene of the 1980s. Amazing, so our jobs are so loud, and it's exhausting, and all that, we all know that. What do you do while on tour these days to stay healthy and recharge and stuff?

Matt: Oh God isn't it different, you know? It's like you go backstage now, it's fucking smoothies and you know, weed grass and yoga, you know? And I love that, you know, like I said, everything I'm telling you in these stories is, is the old me, I go out on the road now, I'm stretching. You know, it's all about stretching, drinking plenty of water. You know, I remember not even thinking about water in the old days, but now I gotta drink a lot of water. I gotta make sure I get the right amount of rest. My job is to stay as calm... I found that if I stay relaxed, I have a great show. It's all about staying true. Staying true.

BR: Well, let me ask you this. What new music are you listening to right now?

Matt: Well, God, I'm out here in the desert, you know, I got my vinyl going, I'm listening to all the cool shit, but there's a young band that I really like. And whenever there's kind of a little bit of a movement of musicians playing instruments that are young, it excites me. Like, I know people have had an issue with, um, Greta von Fleet being too zeppelin-y or whatever, but. The reality is young kids don't really know Zeppelin. So anybody that's playing an instrument is cool. There's a band called Joyous Wolf that I'm really watching out for. Have you heard of them?

BR: No, I haven't.

Matt: They kind of remind me of a young, I want to say Sabbath meets Thin Lizzy. And that excites me. Like a new generation-

BR: -of the stuff we grew up on.

Matt: Of kids that are studying the good shit, but somehow bringing it in.

BR: So before we wrap it up here, what are you doing nowadays? I know you get involved in a lot of charities and stuff. Tell us just a little bit about what they mean to you.

Matt: Well, I'm a co-founder of Adopt The Arts, and that's my main charity that I run with my partner, Abby Berman, and we do music and art for kids in public schools. And we just finished a curriculum and a book that really embodies what we're about. And I think a lot of people think music is a curricular activity that maybe it's the first thing that needs to go in a setting of education. But in my opinion, how much of life have we learned about being musicians? Obviously, we've traveled, but not only where the music comes from, culturally, but what kids can learn about working together in a group setting. It's not about competition.

BR: About listening.

Matt: Yeah. Melody, harmony. Playing on each other. Harmony, you know, when you say the word harmony, that's very important to me. And then I'm in some animal groups too. I'm on the board of Dolphin Project, captivity of dolphins. I don't believe in any captivity of any wild animals.

BR: Great work, man. So what is your favorite original song you've written or performed? And are you writing and producing anything new that you want to tell us about right now?

Matt: Yeah, well I did a couple solo records and I've just re-released my second solo album on vinyl, which people can pick up on [?] And I made a record, I called the band Fierce Joy, Matt Sorum's Fierce Joy, so I made this record called Stratosphere. And I was sort of in like a real, I don't know, just thinking about the world in general when I wrote the record. There's a song on the album that was the lead track called The Sea. It's kind of real petty Americana. And I didn't even play drums on the record. I played guitar and singing. That's probably lyrically the most meaningful. It's basically an emotionally cleansing lyric. Sort of everything that we've been talking about up until... You notice my voice has changed. Now I'm this other guy. And I like to say that my book is probably that kind of a life journey. You know, we all go through stuff. I just happen to do it at rock and roll. You know, and then you end up someplace and you look back and you go, oh, well, hey, that was, why and where are you now? So when I wrote that album, that's exactly where I was at emotionally when you write a record, you're feeling something, right? So you write sort of what naturally comes to you. Could be culturally or what's happening in your life, romantic. So that particular song is probably my favorite.

BR: Well, you got a full life, man. I thank you so much, man, for making some time for us today and coming on over here and sharing your stories. It's been amazing.

Matt: Well, I appreciate it, Brian. This is a great vibe here. I feel like it should be almost like now that the sun's going down, you know, the martinis come out. Playboy After Dark kind of thing. Maybe some saxophone.

BR: That's right, some light saxophone with some brushes on a snare drum. Let's start that band. Saxes After Dark with Matt Sorum and Brian Ray, Palm Springs, California.

Matt: Yeah, it's been a good life so far. Keep going, keep rocking.

BR: That's right. Thanks so much, man.

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