2021.02.08 - Appetite For Distortion - Doug Goldstein Gets Reelz

Transcript:

Brando: And welcome to the podcast, Appetite for Distortion, episode 247. My name is Brando. If you're watching on Zoom, it's another Zoom featured episode. You can find those all on our YouTube channel. You can see a familiar face, whether you're a Guns N' Roses fan or you're a fan of the podcast. Doug Goldstein, how are you, sir?

Doug Goldstein: Hey, I'm good, Brando. How are you, buddy?

Brando: I like your shirt.

DG: Thank you. [?]

B: If you're just listening on the podcast, Doug is wearing the official Appetite for Distortion T-shirt. And I'm also wearing.

DG: Wearing it proudly, yeah.  I'm wearing my Miami colors.  Miami State flag Hurley puts on.

B: Okay, that's a hat. I have my GN'R hat that I got off Amazon because I'm a poser, I guess. But you can get these, these Appetite for Distortion swag on redbubble.com. And joining us also, which I love to do in addition to inviting former managers of Guns N' Roses on the program is to invite listeners. You, you who listens to this podcast, however you listen to it, you are a part of the show. I've said that since the beginning when I was doing this with Scotto. So a name I've seen for a while on Facebook. I've never seen the face. Now I do. Again, we're on zoom. Tommy or Thomas. Would you prefer Tommy or Thomas Frazier?

Thomas Frazier: Tommy, Tommy.

B: Tommy. Right on. And what's great is because when I've had listeners on, it's usually from somebody, it's usually somebody who's another, not just a part of the country, but a part of the world. I've had people on from, you know, Portugal or, you know, Canada or all these other different countries. You're kind of a stone's throw over a bridge. You're in Staten Island.

TF: Staten Island, New York.

DG: Some people would consider that a foreign country. [?] I mean, I hope you don't mind if I do a little bit of intro. So the reason why I asked Tommy to join Brando and I is Tommy and I, although we've never met, we've been talking via Facebook forever. During the days when I was living in Hawaii, which anybody that knows me or has followed kind of what I've gone through a long time ago. So Tommy and I have been talking for a long time. Finally, the other day, I just picked up the phone and said, hey, answer your dad on Facebook. And we had such a hoot talking that I said, hey, why don't you join us on Sunday? So glad to have you, Tommy. You're great.

TF: Thank you. And thank you for the invite and Brenda. Thank you for all your hard work with entertaining us, GN'R fans.

B: I do the best I can. And that's why Doug has been such a pleasure to meet because talking to Doug, he mentioned talking to you. He's he's throughout the course of our bromance. He's mentioned a few GN'R fans that he's become friends with. And it's really cool to see because as we've kind of discussed over the course of this podcast, the current incarnation isn't the most accessible, let's put it that way. So Doug is very accessible. And he mentioned you and the name stuck out. Again, I pay attention to who follows this show. And I said, you know what, bring him on, see if he's available.

TF: Thank you. And we're very grateful for Doug's entertainment and just being genuine and a down to earth great guy.

B: And thank you, you know, for skipping church, you know.

TF: I was a good boy. I went last night. I went at four p.m. I was a good boy. I went at four p.m. and Doug, I sent you the, an instant messenger, the enrollment.

B: Doug, what you and I will go to a synagogue tomorrow.

TF: I'll come out and go with you. We could swap off. One week I'll go with you, one week you come with me. That's right.

B: Before we get to the GN'R talk, I don't think I've been to a synagogue since my last brother was Bar Mitzvah. So I don't know.

TF: Unfortunately, I went to one in LA. Yeah, a funeral. It was terrible.

B: Oh, all right. Well, on that note. Well, Tommy's going to join us-

TF: No, I mean terrible because it was a young lady who died and just sad.

B: Yeah, of course. No, I know. That is terrible. And then I wanted to awkwardly say on that sad note, let's transition to Guns N' Roses. So I'm sorry you had that experience in your life.

TF: Next synagogue I go to, maybe it'll be more pleasant.

B: Yes. We gotta get you to our Bar Mitzvah. Alright?

TF: Absolutely.

B: And well, it's kind of maybe a foreshadowing about some serious stuff that we may talk about. Alright, let's go with that. Doug called me, I mean, he randomly calls me, you know, whether it's just to say hey, or talk about Limp Bizkit or something like that. But he asked if I had seen the Reelz documentary on TV, which premiered I think last weekend as we were recording this. So we're recording this February 7th, so I don't know. It wasn't this past weekend, maybe the weekend, I don't know. It's quarantine, I don't know. I know what year it is, that's about it. The only reason I was able to watch it, because I don't have that channel, and I'll give a shout out to another great listener of the show, Ali Garza.

DG: Ali! [?]

B: She did a Facebook Live. I don't think many people knew about it, because there's a few people watching, and I'm like, I'm not Xing out of this link. I don't know if I can get it back again. And when I did share, because somebody did upload the whole show, and I shared that, it was taken down shortly after. So I know there are a lot of people who didn't get to see it. That being said, if you've seen GN'R documentaries in the past, there wasn't too much perhaps you had missed. But I wanted to talk about things that were discussed that weren't cleared up. And I guess I want to talk about it because Doug wants to talk about it. Because Doug was upset. Doug, you know, it was nice to see. It was cool to see Doug on the documentary. Now knowing the guy. It was cool seeing Vicky Hamilton. She was awesome.

DG: Love Vicky, by the way. Talk about a gal that got a raw deal. Oh my Lord. I mean, she should have managed Guns N' Roses and got screwed. And I will forever love Vicky because of that. She should have at least been given a chance. I mean, she really bore her heart and soul, let him live there. So yeah, I too love Vicky, but go ahead, I'm sorry.

B: No, this is our show. So interject whenever you need to. And I'll give her her book a plug, Appetite for Dysfunction. Yeah, not distortion or destruction, dysfunction. So she was great. There was a couple of people I didn't recognize, which we'll get into, you know, like the dude with the sideways hat and all the tattoos. They had just a random therapist on to analyze Axl, which I never like because they're not your client. But maybe let's start with Mick Wall.

DG: Oh my God. We got to start with people that we hate.

B: And let me just preface this and I'll let you, you go Doug. I've never read a Mick Wall book. I just, I haven't, you know, and that's, that really is no sight to him. I've just read like the autobiographies. I think that the The Band That Time Forgot and that book, I've reached out to Mick a few times for an interview. Never heard back. That happens. Whatever. So I watched the documentary and I'm watching it and I'm thinking, wow, this guy is really milking the GN'R teat because he has had nothing to do with the band in a very long time. And I don't know what he knows. It sounds like he's speaking from a place of knowledge. He may have known some things. Does he really know the current events? I don't know. And then they start talking about the videos and the so-called decline of the band and breaking up. And we talk about November Rain, not Estranged with people have fun with the dolphins and everything. The November Rain video was cringy at times. That pissed me off as a fan. That was one of the most brilliant videos ever made. So just as a fan, go fuck yourself. Right. So I'm like, you know what? Still, it's my opinion. I want to reach out to Mick. Let's see if I can try to finally get him on the podcast. Look on Twitter, I'm blocked. Mick Wall blocks me on Twitter. I don't think I've ever said anything too controversial or angry. I don't know if I've ever really added him. If I did, it was a very long time. I'm just trying to think what I could have said or done. I did find out after the fact, which is interesting, Doug, that he has blocked followers of mine who have never mentioned him ever. So what is the deal? Is he going through my followers and blocking everybody? Is he blocking anybody that talks about Guns N' Roses? What the fuck is Mick Wall's problem?

DG: It's got to be anybody with a credible source who can out him because, I mean, if you think about it, Axl wrote about Mick Wall in Get In The Ring and that was written '89, '90. The only access that Mick Wall ever had to Axl Rose was '87, '88, during the UK days, yet he still talks about his relationship with Axl, like they're best buddies. When Axl's worried about a big show, "He doesn't like to perform it, he's told me many a times," the guy is out of his mind. He lives in the same charade that my former partner Niven does. And that's one of the things that has never been cleared up is people say, "Well, Goldstein took over management in '91." Well, that's not true. I actually was made a co-partner, 50% partner in Niven's company in 1988. Again, nobody talks about that. Mick Wall called me when he was writing his Guns N' Roses book and said, "I want to put yourself and Peter Grant on the Mount Rushmore of Rock and Roll managers." Okay, he said, "You know, Doug, I mean, everybody thinks that Niven carried the bat, you clearly were the one that," and then his book comes out after I gave him a hundred hours of interviews and he killed me, he laid me away. So he's a user and abuser, he's factually incorrect, he has no merit speaking on behalf of anything having to do with Guns N' Roses yet he was interviewed more than anybody else in that whole thing.

B: That he was, I found I noticed that as well.

DG: And the sad part is I told the producer about Mick Wall's lack of involvement.

B: You did? Okay.

DG: Oh yeah, sure. When I met with him in LA. The other thing obviously, Brandon, that I wanted to talk about is the only reason I did that particular Reelz show was to clear up something that you know, Brando, we've talked about it, ad nauseam. I told them factually, July 5th of 1993, when they say in the episode of Reelz that I went to Axl's room to get Slash and Duff to sign away the rights and the name. What I said that ended up on the editing floor was that Niven came out from under his rock and has convinced an inebriated Slash and Duff that that's what I had done. The reality is July 5th of 1993 is the day my son was born. And so I was in San Juan, Capistrano. I wasn't even in the same continent. And so I was really frustrated. I contacted the producer immediately and just said, "This is crap. You screwed me. You're like every other journalist who says that they are going to get to the bottom and then you screwed them just like everybody else." So, I'm not, with the exception of present company, Brandon, I will not be doing interviews anymore without editorial approval. I've been screwed too many times.

B: What did he? Let's just backtrack a little bit. When you were first approached, because I didn't know you were in this documentary. You know, not that we're, we share a lot and I need to know every single one of your steps, but you said you were interviewed like a year ago.

DG: Yeah, right.

B: So how did they approach you? How did, I guess, how did the, how does that work?

DG: It was done out of the UK. The premise that I liked about it was that any money that was made is going towards helping the worldwide effort of the killing of all the [?]. Right. And so I liked the premise. And then when they said it was going to be about Axl Rose, I'm so tired of hearing negativity about a guy that I love, who was my best friend. That I jumped at the opportunity to do that and at least say things that I feel about Axl Rose, what he meant to me as a best friend and as somebody that I worked with. He's a very misunderstood individual who people think has all these negative aspects to him. And that was never my spin in dealing with the guy. Tortured, yes. Should he have been on the road during Use Your Illusion? Probably not. But still one of my best friends ever.

B: You know, you said that and is this private? You know, maybe like Axl doesn't want to hear his name in the press at all. That went through my mind, actually. Let's start there watching it and in watching you was knowing how I just my own experience with the podcast and certain stories that get out there. And I, as you mentioned, I'm not a journalist that screws people over. If I put out interviews, and somebody's come to me like, hey, can you edit that out? And I've come back and fixed it. That's why I just don't want that reputation. That's not how I want my career to be built. But watching the documentary and knowing how close you and Axl were, and obviously the feelings, your feelings are still there. You said at the end, I love you brother, and I can feel that, I felt that. The other thing I felt was when you were talking about his suicide attempt. See, I don't know if I forgot that. That shocked me. And I wanna read a comment before you, whatever you wanna say about that. I just got this message on Twitter from Celia, I wanna say. "Hi, I was able to watch a documentary last night through Facebook. I guess the question along the lines of why reveal all kinds of private information about him if they claim to be such a good friend? I know you are probably limited to what you can say and it's probably heavily edited. But the gun thing, unbelievable. Any wonder the man has trust issues. I thought the documentary was horrible." That's not on you, Doug or anything. "They seem to constantly blame him on everything," which is a problem. Axl is not that guy. "People seem to do absolutely anything for limelight or money. And Mick Wall, sheesh." So that's where she, it's not just us, it's yours. And she just says to me, "Thanks for the great podcast and Twitter. I've learned more over this pandemic about GN'R than I've known my whole life. LOL. And learn new bands too, take care. Alicia." So thanks Alicia. So while you want to get things out there about what a good guy Axl is, and it's what I do on this podcast talking about mental health, and sometimes there are traumas that will explain or help understand why there's erratic behavior, lateness or jumping off, whatever. How do you feel? What were the emotions going through and telling that story to the camera? I know there's more to it and maybe we'll go, I don't know if you wanna say it now or save it for another time. Is it just such a-

DG: I find that, you know me, Brando, when have I ever... By the way, when you were talking about somebody, you leave it open if anybody wants to edit. How many calls have you received from me saying, please edit this out?

B: Oh, none. I'm not to say that I've gotten that a lot.

DG: I'm just saying I'm an open book. I got no problem talking, particularly to the fans, because without fans, you have no band. So as it relates to talking about the suicide attempts, I wasn't doing that to be anything other than giving an explanation as to his state of mind during a major portion, particularly of the Use Your Illusion, and to give some credence to you're not alone. There are boatloads and boatloads and boatloads of Guns N' Roses fans who go through the similar depression. And to understand that here's a guy who can go out and entertain in front of 220,000 people and go home and be alone with nobody looking after him or praising his accolades. It's a massive depression that one goes through and it's not just him. It's entertainers in general. I have this conversation with a lot of people who go from, you know, particularly loved ones, you know, "Why can't," I mean, when he comes home, there's this massive adjustment. I mean, I've explained that for years, 20,000 people in the [?]. And then, you know, and you do that for a year and a half and you come home and your wife says, "The dog's not going to clean up his own shit." And I fired the maid, right? So it was more speaking, I didn't feel like I was, you know, speaking about anything that Axl hadn't spoken about himself being depressed and having gone through his own battles and issues. Everybody knows about Sharon Maynard and Suzie London. So I didn't feel like I was really speaking out of turn, just more to give a better understanding for some of the pain that he was particularly going through.

B: Yeah, and you said something to me off the air too, which I want to say, that you are also sharing your experience. Because you were, you know, you had to help. So you shouldn't have to hold that in because that's your experience. That's also, even though you weren't the potential victim, let's say,  that's a still traumatic experience for you.

DG: And Brando, it was reliving my own history as well. My brother's birthday is a day before Axl Rose's. He passed 10 years ago and he tried to commit suicide a number of times. And I was too young to do anything about it. With Axl Rose I wasn't too young to do anything about it and I was able to effectively intervene in a positive way.

B: Well said. I appreciate that. Tommy, you have any, you know, and you look like you're going to be on the sidelines for the-

DG: Hey, he's going to be for the Rams.

TF: They're not playing today. I'm going to, I'm going PGA with Doug. I'm going to hold his golf-

DG: Let's go, man.

B: To bring you into this, Tommy, you know, and that's, you're just our one man audience. I mean, as a fan, you know, how have you perceived Axl over the years? You know, I have you, you know, do you buy into all the rumors that are out there? And it was interesting, because as his birthday was yesterday, the amount of positive articles by all sorts of news magazines, it's not usually like that. Loudwire's, like "Here are six nice things Axl have done." Spin is like here, you know, "Here's like some of his greatest quotes," you know, love him or hate him. It was so positive, but over the years it's been so negative. Like, are you a fan that's, have you been burned by Axl being late? What's your experience with the band?

TF: I have been burned by him being late. I can understand. I think he was born into an unfortunate situation and he is a role model where you could take a negative and make it a positive.

DG: Nice. Well done, Tommy.

B: Look at that. Short and concise. I love it. Yes.

DG: So Brando, let's talk about the positive things and the real thing.

B: Okay. So, uh, what was... Well, it was awesome to see again Vicky and she was giving a tour of her apartment and where they slept. I had never seen that before. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit?

TF: Is she still in the same apartment?

B: I don't think so. Maybe she had access to it.

DG: There's a couple of people that I'd like to mention that have never been talked about. One of them is Jennifer Perry. Jennifer was best friends and roommates at times with Vicky. She also ended up to work for Abelon, which was the big promoter in LA, Brian Murphy. And Jennifer was an integral part in the band's early success as well. The other two people which never get mentioned and were integral in the success of the band was John Jackson, the band's international agent from day one. He was also the agent for Metallica and Iron Maiden. And he was making moves on behalf of the band in a very, like literally from the very beginning. Oh, you've been upgraded.

B: By the way, look at this as a gift from Zoom. Running out of time, we've removed the 40 minute time limit on your book.

TF: Yeah. Look at that.

B: Wow. If Zoom wants to be a sponsor of this podcast.

DG: How about that? Well, it's my account. I think.

B: Oh yeah, I know. Just keep it real.

DG: John Jackson that nobody ever talks about and he was from day one, he was the one that got it, that the band was literally breaking out of the UK so get him back over there, right and then he all the moves of playing the band around the world was John. And similarly Mel Posner, who I refer to as Uncle Mel, he was a former president of Capital Records. He ended up running the international division of Geffen Records and so between him and John and their support staff, right? I mean, Jane Pampel, who worked with John, and Christina Calio, who worked for Mel Posner. I mean, they were people who were just killing it on the band's behalf, but nobody ever talks about it. You know, people talk, like, they love to talk about the managers, but they don't talk about the support staff who are really getting a lot of stuff done on our behalf.

B: Have you seen, like, what is the best documentary that you've seen or book that's out there that you've seen about band is there?

DG: No.

B: There still needs to be one put out that-

DG: Yeah, yeah, it's either Axl's book or my book, whichever one, you know, I mean, because we were the only sober ones, right? And we don't, neither Axl or myself steer too far from reality. Axl's memory is crazy good. My memory is good with a little kick in the tail. But I mean, you know, I was there and sober for the entire Appetite and Use Your Illusion tours.

B: Who was, he says he didn't like, doesn't do many interviews, the guy on the, on the documentary, who big dude, tattoo dude, silent-

DG: John Reese! Yeah. That's one of the things I wanted to talk about.  Did a great job. You know, he was relaxed and he looked great in front of the camera. John was hired... He'd never been a tour manager before. I brought him in because the guy just, he's really smart and he's great with people. And so I brought him in to tour manage the biggest band in the world. His first gig was the Rolling Stones shows at the Coliseum, And he was hired pretty much-

B: Here it comes again. Another appearance of on my cat.

DG: Yeah, I thought that he did a fantastic job in his interviews. They were interspersed throughout. And I also need to go on record about Tom Zutaut. Tom, I thought, did a fantastic job with speaking about the stuff that he dealt with. His relationship with Axl was at times incredibly close, at times not so close, but that's everybody with Axl. I thought Tom did a great job and he's looking really good. I mean, I got to give it to him. He looks great. I believed everything that he had to say... Literally the only thing that I look back on in the Reelz thing is there were a couple of instances where I went, "Well, hang on a second, all three of us couldn't have been there." [Laughs] I remember being there and I'm pretty sure I was alone. But other than that, I thought that Reese and Zutaut did just a fantastic job.

B: And it's interesting that Zutaut, he's completely out of the business. I think he sells cars now.

DG: That's right. Yeah. That's what I understand. [?] was always really close to Alan, therefore not so close with me. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due and I thought he did just a really, really, really good job.

B: Do you know if they reached out to Alan?

DG: I do not know that. I'm not sure.

B: Okay. And I just want to read this comment from Jay Trucker. I want to get my listeners involved sometimes literally like Thomas. Jay Trucker says, "I can't believe they skipped the entire 2002-2014 touring era. Really unfair." I mean, that may be for [?], and I think those are for us, the dedicated GN'R fans that love that era. But I mean, if you're, you know, just a Joey bag of donuts, I'm sorry, you don't, I hate to say it, if you're Joey bag of donuts, if you're just Joe Schmo, you don't care about Buckethead or, you know, Bumblefoot. I mean, we care about them, but for a documentary like that, you know, that didn't surprise me.

DG: Yeah. I mean, you know, again, I don't know how much time you end up having in a situation like that, but I think more importantly, they were trying to deal with the unraveling of the original-

B: I know. And what I noticed that when the voiceover said, here's where the unraveling began, or I'm paraphrasing, something like that. And the picture they showed was Axl and his braids. And I'm like, I don't know. I just kind of. But Doug, were you with him when he went from, went to braids?

DG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there until-

TF: Did you do the braids, Doug?

DG: Yeah, I did the braids. That was my gig, Tommy.

B: Watching [?] braiding Axl's hair.

DG: That's right, yeah. Pulled the gun out of his mouth through his braids.

B: Oh, yeah. Jeez. I know this is a silly question. Do you remember the conversation? He's like, "Eh, I feel like braiding my hair today." Did anything like that happen?

DG: No, I don't know. Look, when it came to... We never had much of a conversation about what he dressed like, a beard like. It just wasn't really anything that he asked my opinion on.

B: But what about as a friend? I mean, you see him next time. It's like, you know, all of a sudden he looks, you know, like Bo Derek, you know. So you didn't have that.

DG: I really, I really can't.

B: OK, all right. Sorry. I know it's a it's a.

DG: Brandon, I went from having hair down to here to shaving my head.  And he never said anything about that.

B: Fair enough. I guess that's a more sensitive topic.

DG: [?] out in front of 200,000 people.

B: Yeah, exactly. That's a more sensitive topic for us who used to have hair.

DG: That's right.

B: There you go. See, I'm like you. It's quarantine. Who cares? You look good, Tommy.

TF: Thank you. Thank you.

B: I'm trying to think what else. It was two hours, which I couldn't believe. It was a nice break from quarantine just to watch something about GN'R, which is fun and Reels, it's funny. You know, I've enjoyed their past documentaries. I never take it too seriously. But I think what bothers me as we talk about the serious stuff, like with the, you know, suicide attempts and they have a therapist on there that Axl is not their client. I don't know. I know they do that. I know these shows do that about, you know-

DG: How do you really know somebody if you haven't delved into his psyche all along? You know, at that point, you're just a tire kicker, you know, using your basic Psychology 101 to try and analyze somebody you've never met.

B: I know. And I get it when they do it for like, you know, Ted Bundy or these serial killers. But you don't need to do it for Axl at this point, because some things I just felt, like did Axl really believe that Stephanie and Erin were sisters in a previous life conspiring against him? That just seems like... That sounded absurd to me and that's just something they were casting something on him. So there's still, you know, as we talk about us the hardcore GN'R versus the average, it still bothers me the average GN'R fan or music fan sees that documentary and believes everything. So at least they know they can believe you, they can believe Tom Zutaut, you know, they can certain people but not Mick Wall.

DG: Oh, please don't believe Mick Wall.

B: Well, he apologized to Axl in his last book. You take that back. I don't know.

DG: Yeah, right.

B: Well, if he ever wants to clear his name amongst GN'R fans, the invitation is always open.

TF: Nice.

B: And I feel that invitation will remain open.

DG: I made a different invitation when the book came out. He didn't take me up on that one. Let's go meet in person to discuss how this was done, Mick.

B: Oh, geez, geez, geez. What else from the doc stood out to you? Do you feel is there anything? Because you called me hot. You were coming in hot, Doug. You're like, "I got to do an episode this weekend. I got to talk about it."

DG: Generally, I thought that it was OK. Other than the I mean, why Mick Wall? We can sit here and talk about it forever. But I mean, he was probably 50 percent of that episode. And when I went out on my way to tell the producer, he's had zero input in anything Guns N' Roses related since 1989, probably. Mick is just a guy who sees an opportunity to continue to milk the teat, to use your word, to try and feed his family on something he has zero understanding or appreciation of.

B: So what was the producer's response?

DG: Little.

B: Did he virtually shrug their shoulders? You know?

DG: Yeah, he said, yeah, we've heard that about Mick. I think it was for them, he's based in the UK, the producers are based in the UK. And Mick tells a great story. Like he actually knows and he doesn't. So.

B: No, and that's, that's something I have said on this podcast since day one, you know, you can come off as an expert and maybe, you know, like, I don't know if I do to some people because of I have a podcast. I am not an expert. I wasn't in any of these places. I don't know. I just know from second, third, fifth hand, whatever, and I do my best to research. That's why I got people on like Doug, you know, to tell his side. That's why I invite listeners for questions because of how intelligent the listener base is. I don't want to mislead anybody. So it's just a shame that that could be misled. I guess the last question about the documentary is, any chance that Axl watched it, you think?

DG: Oh, I think there's every chance he watched it.

B: Are you kidding me? Really? Are you kidding me? Okay, wow, okay.

DG: No, actually, it's a great story. Tell me you'll like this one. So in the very beginning, right, I started in 1987, I'm the band's tour manager, and we released Sweet Child O' Mine, finally, right? They released Welcome to the Jungle twice and it didn't take off. And so finally they released Sweet Child O' Mine and the band blows up. So I'd always told Axl on the road, "Never read your press. Don't read it, don't read it, don't read it, don't listen to it," right? Stay away from it. So he calls me, we're off the road. And he goes, "Dougie," he goes, "I gotta talk to you." I said, "What's up?" He goes, and some of the fans have probably already heard this cuz I, not the first time I've mentioned it. So I said, "What's up?" He goes, "Man, I'm reading the press. I know you told me not to." I said, "What are you doing?" He goes, OK. He goes, "Look, I just need to ask a question." I said, "OK." He goes, "Every article I'm reading tells me that success has turned me into an asshole. What's your opinion?" And I said, "Really, you want my opinion?" He goes, "Yeah." I said, "Fine, I'll give you my opinion." I said, "In 1987, when I first met you, you tried to fight me in Atlanta knowing that I've been a bodyguard for the Stones and the Who, I'm Like Sabbath and Martin Van Halen, blah, blah, blah. You didn't care. You wanted to fight me." I go, "You were the biggest asshole I'd ever met in my entire life, but you were under-publicized." I go, "Now, you are successful and you've turned into a really nice guy. The problem is nobody knew back in '87 what an asshole you were. So now we are in late '88 and people think you're an asshole. They have no idea what the hell I was dealing with in '87."

B: That is funny. What was his response to that? Did he laugh along with that?

DG: Yeah.

B: Because that's a nice, that's a very honest and nice thing to say.

DG: There was another situation that took place and it's just kind of interesting. When he finally realized that, "Oh shit, maybe we are big." He called me about three o'clock in the morning. There's a self wash on Sunset Boulevard. It used to be there anywhere, I'm not sure if it is. But he was stuck there at three o'clock in the morning. There was about 3,000 fans in cars around him and he couldn't get out. And he called me, he goes, "I'm stuck." I go, "What's up?" He goes, "I'm self washing my BMW. And all these fans started showing up." And I said, "Call 911." He goes, "What?" I said, "Call 911, get him out of there." So, oh, okay, so that does bring up a point. So, in the Reelz documentary, there's something else that's misunderstood. So during the Rolling Stones, Axl was running late. I know, tough to believe. Tommy, tough to believe.

TF: Yeah.

DG: So, first show. So I had to send the cops up to Shoreham Towers where he lived at the time, and have them pick him up and give him an escort back. Later, it's led to believe by some of the other people doing interviews that only in LA can you send the cops there to jerk him out of his room and take them... That isn't what happened. He knew they were coming. I set up a police escort. It wasn't like somebody was, and they actually showed them in cuffs, right? In the Reelz documentary. I'm like, "What are you doing? That isn't what the place [?]". You know, so I mean, there's certain things that got blown out of proportion in it, but, like I said, for the most part, I thought that with the exception Mick Wall, everybody did a really good job.

B: And the main thing that you wanted to have hammer home that bothered you was the contract signing.

DG: I wasn't there. Cause here's the reality. They didn't have legal representation and I'm not dumb. I would have said, "Hey, excuse me, Axl. They don't have their own attorney. This isn't valid. You can't have them sign it in an inebriated state, first off, they're in no position to have legal standing. They don't have legal representation. So that document that they signed should have been set aside as null and void without legal representation in the inebriated state that they were in." Nobody ever asked my opinion about that. Slash and Duff never did. They just took it for granted that somehow I was involved, even though I was, you know, 5,000 miles away on the other side of the planet.

B: And I assume over the years you've tried to let Slash and Duff know because Slash wasn't very kind to you in his book.

DG: No, it wasn't very kind... You got your PGA hat on, Tommy. So Tommy and I discussed this, you know, in, in Slash's book, he says, "Dougie used to put us at these golf resorts so that he could play golf." And reality is I teed up at 5.30 in the morning just as they were going to bed. So it had nothing to do with that. It had everything to do with the fact that on the '88, '89 Appetite Tour, when I was staying downtown, we were throwing drug dealers in and out of hotel rooms, right and left, but good luck scoring any heroin on the 15th hole at the TPC course, Las Calinas and Dallas, right? You're not going to do it. Maybe now that it's grown a little, but not back when I was booking them there. That's why I booked them out there. I had nothing to do with golf. Most of the times I didn't even get to play golf because I was [?] some mess from the night before.

B: And there's still so much that needs to be cleared up.

DG: And look, I mean, I love the opportunity to sit with Slash and Duff and explain my side of the story. Absolutely. Will I ever get that opportunity? Probably not. Probably not. That's okay.

B: Well, somebody once said not in this lifetime and it happened.

DG: Yeah, right.

TF: But again, one of my mantras in life is I don't look in the rear view mirror for fear of running into the wall in front of me. [?] The reason why I do these podcasts really isn't to clear up, you know, anything about me. It's really just to talk to the fans and anybody that knows me well enough, understands that about me.

B: I get that sense too. I mean, that's why Tommy's here.

TF: Yeah.

DG: I love the fans. You know, when a lot of these fans were in their teens they were spending their hard-earned money or their allowance or whatever, buying t-shirts and posters and whatever else that I received the benefit of. And why in the world 20 years later, would I not answer questions that had to do with a band that was relevant in their youth? I would think that would be pretty one-sided of me and a pretty shitty thing to do.

B: There was, and I forget his name, I saw... I think he was from Norway. He commented in the GN'R fan spot Facebook page. [?] it's a nice Facebook page, you know, what's that? No, not him. Not, not him. It's not somebody that I'm friendly with. Like I saw somebody leave a comment saying, has anyone heard from Doug Goldstein lately? And I've been, he's like, I'm worrying about him. You know, I've been speaking to him for many years and I know Facebook, it's, you know, it's not like you have a verified Twitter. You know, you activate your account, you deactivate, you have another, you know, it's, I don't know. It's not like you're trying to escape the cops. It's just Facebook drama, I guess. So I just said, oh, Doug's alive.

DG: Brandon, I'll be honest with you. What it is, is, you know, I've had this discussion privately. I call it cowards behind keyboards. If you Google Doug Goldstein Guns and Roses, the very first, well, the second thing that comes up is "Why Doug Goldstein's full of shit." And it's an article that you cannot comment on, by the way, he edited it so that you can't put a comment, but it was related to my comments about, I saw the, and the line coming when Axl did his piece about being abused as a child and then Slash decides to go do a pay-per-view with Michael Jackson. And this guy's saying, "But those accusations didn't come out for a couple of years." Well, that's all well and good. But those of us that were in the industry, we all knew. I have a friend that I will leave nameless that I've known since I was 18 years old, who was literally the house manager at Neverland. And we all knew what was transpiring out there. So I don't really give a shit about some coward behind a keyboard saying that I was full of shit other than when somebody's interested in possibly working with me. And that's the second thing that comes up and you can't, I don't know how to get rid of it. I'm not savvy enough to call Google and say this guy's full of shit.

B: I mean, I'm Googling you right now and honestly it's a lot of our interviews but I don't see anything too crazy.

DG: Oh, if you put Doug Goldstein, GNR.

B: Oh, just GNR?

DG: Yeah, Doug Goldstein, GNR. Doug Goldstein, GNR.

B: Doug Goldstein manager where Music Meets Soul, design consultant. No, I don't know. Maybe someone did something for you. I don't know.

[?]

B: Your picture with Donald Trump comes up. Have I ever asked you about that, meeting Trump?

TF: What was he like?

DG: You know what, I'll be honest with you, I go on face value what does somebody treat me like - and so, he came to the show, wanted to meet Axl, and I made that happen. And then I told my then-wife - she was flying in the next day, I said, "You're not gonna believe who's at the show.'" She goes, "Who's that?" I said, "Donald Trump.'" She just said, "Fuck you!" I go, "Why would I lie? I have no reason to lie!" She goes, "Doug, shut up, Donald Trump was not into the show." So she flies out the next day, and I'm having dinner with Peter Mensch who was my mentor, he helped me all along the way. [?] without him I would have been lost. He manages Metallica, and Chili Peppers, and Muse, and Black Keys, and on, and on, and on. There are very few bands that he doesn't manage. So he and his first wife and I and my then-wife and because of my bodyguard thing I'm facing the door at this Thai restaurant in Manhattan, and all of a sudden, Donald Trump walks in. And I hear this, "Hey, Doug Goldstein!" He comes over, pulls up a chair, and sits down for 45 minutes, talks to us. And obviously, my first wife is just sitting there. I go, "Yeah, I'm a big liar!" So he literally gave me his business card, he said, '"You know what, Doug? I like you a lot, you're a good kid. If you ever need anything from me, this is my real contact information. Call me anytime." Obviously, I never did, but I used to carry it just as a joke, you know - I've got the Trump card. He was great, the guy was nice to me. So, you know, I have my opinions about how he served our country, but I'll keep those-

B: I understand. And I have listeners on both sides of the aisle. So I'm like, we meet here just to talk about, you know, we love Guns N' Roses, like whatever you're... Everybody believes in something different. As long as you don't harm yourself or somebody else, I believe whatever you want to believe. It is interesting. Didn't it leak last year that it was a document or document that Trump wrote that November Rain was the greatest music video of all time? It was like in some notes to [?] he got a point for me there. Well, I mean, this was this was great. I mean, Doug, obviously, we're going to talk a lot more as this podcast continues about certain things, Tommy. I mean, I hope you enjoyed yourself.

TF: Very much. Thank you very much, Brando and Doug.

B: We're in front of a live studio audience on this pre-recorded podcast.

TF: Just one thing going back to as far as tardiness and being late. My first show in seeing Axl was at the House of Blues the first time in 2001, and I believe he came on Doug at like 3.45 in the morning.

DG: Yeah, like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Give or take.

TF: And what's funny is, give or take. So here's the tickets. But this was in the setlist. This was in front of Tommy Stinson. So somebody wrote, "Remember to smile." Now Doug, whose handwriting is this?

B: It looks like Axl's.

TF: In your opinion, Doug? Who do you think this is that wrote it?

DG: Oh, wow. You know what? It's one of the other band members because a crew member would never put himself in jeopardy and it's not Axl's writing.

B: Oh, it's not? Okay. I mean, look at that beautiful set list. Oh my God. Silkworms. Oh My God. Riad and the Bedouins. What a show that was, man.

TF: It was really, it really was a great show.

B: You know what, Tommy? I'll put it out there because I've had a few people reach out to me since I've done singular episodes about certain events, like the riots I've done so far, we'll do a Vegas, a 2001 Vegas show. And if you want to be a part of that, we'll get some other.

TF: Absolutely. It was unbelievable. We flew out from New York, we were lucky to get tickets, and it was a great experience. We were, we could never do it now in our 40s, but back then standing literally from like three o'clock in the afternoon till 3.45 in the morning when he came on, it was really, really, really just a great show. Little different seeing Robin dressed the way he was as opposed to Slash. I'm sure Doug understands what I'm saying.

DG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by the way, the first thing that I thought of telling me was that's probably Robin that wrote that.

TF: Oh, really?

DG: Yeah, because Robin had a great sense of humor. Great sense of humor. He is a really funny guy. I love Robin Finck a lot.

TF: It was a great show. It was just different seeing the guys supporting Axl.

DG: Yeah, and I do have to say one thing. I'd like to close with one thing is Richard Fortus, nobody gives that guy near the credit that he deserves. Not only as a player, but as a human being. You know, I lived in St. Louis and when I go to TSA, they knew that I had worked with GN'R and I'm telling you, Richard Fortus could run for mayor in St. Louis and no question. He's just that loved in that town.

B: He's a great dude. I'm very fortunate to have gotten him on this on this podcast to talk about, you know, freak bass and I hope whenever a new GN'R album comes out that he is a big part of it because he deserves it. He deserves it. Right on. Well, Doug, thank you so much. Tom, let me ask you this before we get out of here. Tommy, is that your most prized possession, GN'R possession? You know, favorite piece of memorabilia.

TF: I got a couple. Duff was kind to me and my wife. He had us backstage at the Kings of Chaos in Foxwoods in Connecticut about six years ago, seven years ago, I got a ton of video footage signatures. Slash, I met Slash and Duff a lot and they were very kind to us back in 2001. So I have a ton of stuff, but it's only, it's all Slash and it's all Duff and if they saw me in a room, they would know who I am, not by name, but they were always very kind to me and very kind to my wife. Duff didn't have to have us backstage at Foxwoods and he did.

B: That's great to hear. Do you have, another question I always ask the listeners who come on, do you have a favorite GN'R song?

TF: It definitely have to be Don't Cry.

B: I'm assuming the original lyrics.

TF: Yes. Actually, actually the demo.

B: Oh, the demo, okay. I like it. The 1985 demo.

TF: Yeah, absolutely. I bet. I bet Doug also heard a lot of Chinese stuff that maybe we didn't hear even with the leaks and everything else. That's probably very good.

DG: Very much so. Although, you know, Tommy, it was, it was a little bit like, can I please get the baby away from this pregnant woman? Because she's been she's been pregnant now for about seven years. I think it's time that we just take this baby away from the mom.

TF: Doug, let me ask you a question. When they got in the studio in '95, '96, the material that Duff, Slash and Matt Sorum worked on, I don't know if Paul Tobias was involved because that's when that Paul Yogi, that's when things kind of really went south, but the material they worked on, was it really Southern blues or was it okay or what was your opinion?

DG: It was good. It was good. It just wasn't really, I mean Axl was trying to go with a three guitar motif and I've said this countless times so I'm not speaking out of turn, but Axl's response from the second he hired Paul Tobias, Huge, whatever you want to call him, was, "He's only there until you find another guitar player. That's it. He's not the permanent replacement." And I would beat that into Slash and Duff all the time and all they had to do to get rid of him was bring in somebody else and yet they never did. I could never understand why they opted to not.

B: Marc Ford, former Black Crowes, has recently came out that he's been approached a couple of times. Do you remember that? Marc Ford coming in?

DG: That probably was being approached by Slash and Duff. The stuff that I was hearing from Axl, you know, Zakk Wylde, Dave Navarro.

B: This GN'R family tree. But these are other episodes, Doug. You know, if we ever, if you're obviously I'm here, if you want to get more stuff off your chest, you know, and Tommy, this was a pleasure. We'll do a Vegas episode and we'll be talking to you again.

TF: Actually, can I just ask one question?

B: Absolutely.

TF: Okay. Always wanted to ask this. Thank you, Brandon. Doug, at the music awards, the famous music awards where Slash and Duff got up there when you were kind enough to say to the people who were running the show, maybe it's a good idea if they don't go up there, but they went up there anyway. What were they drinking?

DG: What weren't they drinking?

TF: Okay. Because-

DG: So what happened in that situation, and it happened a couple of times, I mean, that was... Guns N' Roses was my baby, Great White was his, Niven's. And so he wrote with them, he produced them. And so because he knew that they were gonna be on TV, he ordered me to sit with Great White back in the back so that he could sit up front with Duff and Slash knowing that they were gonna win an award. So I had no control over what was going on and I saw them drinking their, I mean, Slash was always a Jack guy. Everybody knows that and Duff was always a Soly[?] guy and everybody knows that. So that's what they were drinking. After the first time that they won, yeah, I approached Dick Clark and I said, "Mr. Clark, I'm not with them. I have no control. They're not going to stop drinking. Nobody that's currently with them can stop them from drinking."

TF: Did they take it in? Because do they, at those award shows, do they have it available? Because imagine, you're sitting, like me and Brandon were sitting down in the audience. How do we, how do we continue?

DG: Nobody stops them. So they're sitting there, you know, and they've got it in flasks. But they continue to drink throughout. And Niven didn't, they didn't respect Niven enough to where if he said, "Hey guys, that's it, you're done." If I was there, they would have listened to me and just said, "Okay, Dougie, sorry." And I also offered at my expense to send them to a restaurant, Le Chardonnay that we used to go to. And Dick Clark said, "No, I need them here. I don't care what you say. They have to be here." And I said, "Just remember what I said, okay? They're not getting more sober as the evening goes on."

TF: Were you with them when you guys left the American Music Awards? Were you with them in the limo?

DG: No.

TF: I was going to say that must have been an interesting ride.

DG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I wasn't. I think that the bodyguards are with them. I believe that Niven stayed behind. I mean, Tommy, it's the same thing as the Tom Petty situation where Vince Neil out of the dark punches Izzy in front of, I mean, Axl and I were about 50 yards behind. Niven was standing right next to Izzy. Now, have that been me standing next to Izzy Vince Neil would no longer be breathing air.

TF: Right.

B: You would kill him.

DG: Absolutely. You don't do that to anybody. That's a family member of mine.

B: Ooh. Yeah. Wow. That, that, that story is still like, it's just hard to believe, you know, that, that story, but one last quick thing. Cause it's just. How do you not bring up Dick Clark again? And did he have a reaction after the fact? Did he say anything funny? Cause it's Dick Clark.

DG: He came to walk up to me and I just went like this and he goes, "You know what Doug, you warned me, we're good."

B: You shrugged your shoulders.

DG: Like, "I told you, Dick Clark. Dude, I told you, I tried to tell you."

B: [?] Doug, Thomas, this was so much fun.

Excerpts from Ultimate Guitar:
-------------------------------------

During an appearance on the Appetite for Distortion Podcast, former Guns N' Roses manager Doug Goldstein, who managed the group between 1991 and 2008, discussed his recent appearance on the Reelz Channel documentary "Axl Rose: Guns N' Roses Frontman."

At one point, the interviewer said, "Watching the documentary and knowing how close you and Axl were - and obviously, your feelings are still there. You said at the end, 'I love you, brother,' and I felt that. The other thing I felt was when you were talking about his suicide attempt. I don't know if I forgot that; that shocked me... So while you want to get things out there about what a good guy Axl is, and it's what I do on this podcast, talking about mental health, and sometimes there are traumas that will explain or help understand why there's erratic behavior. How did you feel? What were the emotions going through when telling that story to a camera? I know there's more to it, and I don't know if you want to say it now or save it for another time."

Doug replied (transcribed by UG):

"You know me, Brandon - how many calls have you received from me, saying, 'Please, edit this out'?"

None.

"You know me, I'm an open book, I got no problem talking particularly to the fans because without fans you have no band.

"So as it relates to talking about the suicide attempt, I wasn't doing that to be anything other than giving an explanation as to his state of mind during a major portion, particularly of the 'Use Your Illusion' [era] and to give some credence to - you're not alone.

"There are boatloads, and boatloads, and boatloads of Guns N' Roses fans who go through a similar depression. And to understand that here's a guy who can go out and entertain in front of 220,000 people, and go home and be alone with nobody looking after him or praising his accolades...

"It's a massive depression that one goes through, and it's not just him, it's entertainers in general. I have this conversation with a lot of people who go from particularly the loved ones - when he comes home, there's this massive adjustment.

"I've been explaining that for years - 220,000 people in the arena, and you do that for a year and a half, and you come home and your wife says, 'The dog's not going to clean up his own shit. And I fired the maid.'

"It was more speaking... I didn't feel like I was speaking about anything that Axl hadn't spoken about himself, being depressed and having gone through his own battles and issues.

"So I didn't feel like I was really speaking out of turn, just more to give a better understanding of some of the pain that he was particularly going through."

Yeah, and you said something to me off the air too, which I want to say, that you are also sharing your experience because you had to help. You shouldn't have to hold that in because that's your experience, even though you weren't the potential victim, let's say, that's still a traumatic experience for you.

"And I was reliving my own history as well. My brother's birthday is a day before Axl's accident. He passed 10 years ago, and he tried to commit suicide a number of times - and I was too young to do anything about it.

"With Axl Rose, I wasn't too young to do anything about it, and I was able to effectively intervene in a positive way."

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/manager_speaks_on_axl_roses_suicide_attempt_discusses_gnr_frontmans_state_of_mind_at_the_time.html

*

During an appearance on Appetite for Distortion, former Guns N' Roses manager Doug Goldstein, who managed the group between 1991 and 2008, discussed his relationship with Slash and Duff McKagan, online drama, while also looking back on Donald Trump attending a GN'R gig back in the early '90s.

Asked how Slash "wasn't very kind" to him in his book, Goldstein replied (transcribed by UG):

"No, he wasn't very kind. In Slash's book, he says, 'Dougie used to put us at these golf resorts so that he could play golf.' The reality is - I woke up at 5:30 in the morning just as they were going to bed, so it had nothing to do with that.

"It had everything to do with the fact that on the '88-'89 'Appetite' tour [Doug worked as the band's tour manager at the time] when I was staying downtown, we were throwing drug dealers in and out of hotel rooms, right and left., but good luck scoring any heroin on the 15th hole at the TPC course in Las Colinas and Dallas. You're not gonna do it.

"Maybe now that it's grown a little, but not back when I was booking them there. That's why I booked him out there, and it had nothing to do with golf. Most of the time I didn't even get to play golf because I was dealing with some mess from the night before."

Yeah, there's still so much that needs to be cleared up.

"I mean, would I love the opportunity to sit with Slash and Duff [McKagan, bass] and explain my side of the story. Will I ever get that opportunity? Probably not. That's OK.

"But again, one of my mantras in life is I don't look in the rearview mirror for fear of running into the wall in front of me. The reason why I do these podcasts really isn't to clear up anything about me, it is really just to talk to the fans. And anybody that knows me well enough understands that about me.

"I love the fans; when a lot of these fans were in their teens, they were spending their hard-earned money or their allowance or whatever buying t-shirts, and posters, and whatever else that I received the benefit of.

"And why in the world, 20 years later, would I not answer questions that had to do with a band that was relevant in their youth? I would think that would be pretty one-sided of me and a pretty shitty thing to do."

Doug also touched on his 2018 remark that Slash's collaboration with "pedophile" Michael Jackson was "the beginning of the end" for Guns N' Roses. [...] Now, the manager commented:

"I'll be honest with you what it is. I've had this discussion privately, I call it 'cowards behind keyboards'. If you google 'Doug Goldstein Guns N' Roses,' the very first thing is - well, the second thing that comes up is, 'Why Doug Goldstein is full of shit.' And it's an article that you cannot comment on, by the way, he edited it so that you can't put a comment.

"But it was related to my comments about - I saw the end of the line coming [for Guns N' Roses] when Axl did his piece about being abused as a child, and then Slash decides to go do a pay-per-view with Michael Jackson...

"'But those [pedophilia] accusations didn't come out for a couple of years!' Well, that's all well and good, but those of us that were in the industry - we all knew. I have a friend that I will leave nameless that I've known since I was 18 years old, who was literally the house manager at Neverland, and we all knew what was transpiring out there.

"So I don't really give a shit about some coward behind a keyboard saying that I was full of shit, other than when somebody's interested in possibly working with me. And that's the second thing that comes up. I don't know how to get rid of it, I'm not savvy enough to call Google and say, 'This guy's full of shit.'"

Your picture with Donald Trump comes up. What was he like?

"I'll be honest with you. I go on face value what does somebody treat me like - and so, he came to the show, wanted to meet Axl, and I made that happen.

"And then I told my then-wife - she was flying in the next day, I said, 'You're not gonna believe who's at the show.' She goes, 'Who's that?' I said, 'Donald Trump.' She just said, 'Fuck you!' I go, 'Why would I lie? I have no reason to lie!' She goes, 'Doug, shut up, Donald Trump was not into the show.'

"So she flies out the next day, and I'm having dinner with Peter Mensch who was my mentor, he helped me all along the way. He manages Metallica, and Chili Peppers, and Muse, and Black Keys, and on, and on, and on. There are very few bands that he doesn't manage.

"So he and his first wife and I and my then-wife - I'm facing the door at this Thai restaurant in Manhattan, and all of a sudden, Donald Trump walks in. And I hear this, 'Hey, Doug Goldstein!' He comes over, pulls up a chair, and sits down for 45 minutes, talks to us.

"And obviously, my first wife is just sitting there. I go, 'Yeah, I'm a big liar!' So he literally gave me his business card, he said, 'You know what, Doug? I like you a lot, you're a good kid. If you ever need anything from me, this is my real contact information. Call me anytime.'

"Obviously, I never did, but I used to carry it just as a joke, you know - I've got the Trump card. He was great, the guy was nice to me."

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/gnr_manager_reflects_on_controversial_pedophile_michael_jackson__slash_remark_recalls_how_donald_trump_acted_when_he_wanted_to_meet_axl_rose.html

Transcribed this.

Doug Goldstein quoted in Mick Wall's book about Axl's suicide attempts (there they are placed during the 1994-96 period, when Axl was dealing with the lawsuits and the band falling apart:

In 2023, Brando shared some excerpts from Doug Goldstein's unreleased book (after Doug bailed on him):

Thanks, parts of this is worth integrating into the history section.

Why did Goldstein can the idea of a book? If I was Brando, I would have walked away from the project, or any project with Goldstein, but from what you wrote it seems like Goldstein walked away from Brando and thar Brando then decided to disclose parts of the manuscript.

Soulmonster wrote:Thanks, parts of this is worth integrating into the history section.

Why did Goldstein can the idea of a book? If I was Brando, I would have walked away from the project, or any project with Goldstein, but from what you wrote it seems like Goldstein walked away from Brando and thar Brando then decided to disclose parts of the manuscript.

Yeah, agreeing to work with Goldstein on the book was a bad idea to begin with.

If I remember correctly, according to Brando, at one point after he had already worked on a good chunk of a draft of Doug's book, Doug found an editor or publisher, who didn't like Brando's approach (saying the book wouldn't be marketable enough or something like that). Brando was offended, and Doug bailed on him and went on to supposedly work with another ghost writer. So Brando's and Goldstein's collaboration ended there.

Then Brando started sharing parts of the book on social media, and also launched a paid subscribers only podcast on Patreon in which he was going to share the whole book. But as soon as he made that move, Goldstein reached out to him and apologized, so the podcast didn't materialize except for one episode.