03. 1984-1985 - THE BEGINNINGS

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:26 am

CHAPTER INDEX

- OCTOBER 1984-MARCH 1985: GUNS N' ROSES IS FORMED
- MARCH 1985: MERGING WITH LA GUNS AND ADDING IZZY
- SONG: DON'T CRY
- MARCH 1985: DUFF REPLACES OLE
- MARCH 26, 1985: GUNS N' ROSES PLAYS ITS FIRST CONCERT
- THE MUSIC SCENE OF HOLLYWOOD IN THE EIGHTIES
- APRIL 1985: THE NEXT SHOWS
- SONG: THINK ABOUT YOU
- DUFF CONSIDERS QUITTING
- MAY 1985: TRACII AND ROB QUIT THE BAND
- TRACII LOOKS BACK AT HIS SHORT TENURE
- JUNE 1985: SLASH AND STEVEN JOINS, FORMATION OF THE CLASSIC LINEUP
- JUNE 1985: FIRST REHEARSAL WITH THE CLASSIC LINEUP
- JUNE 6, 1985; THE TROUBADOUR: THE FIRST SHOW WITH THE CLASSIC LINEUP

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:26 am

OCTOBER 1984-MARCH 1985

GUNS N' ROSES IS FORMED

OCTOBER 31, 1994: AXL AND TRACII NAME GUNS N' ROSES

On Halloween, October 31, 1984, two young men were sitting on a couch in an apartment in Hollywood. They were discussing the future. The two men were Tracii Guns (age 18 at the time) and Axl Rose (age 22 at the time). Tracii was the lead guitarist in the band LA Guns and Axl had until earlier this very evening been the singer in the same band until he was fired by Raz Cue, who in addition to managing LA Guns also owned the apartment and the couch where the young men were sitting. Now Tracii and Axl discussed what to do.

The answer was to form Guns N' Roses:

When we got home, Raz went into his room and Axl and I sat on the couch. We both looked at each other and said, “How in the hell can he fire anybody?” By the end of the conversation, we had constructed Guns N’ Roses.

Tales From The Stage, February 2013

[…] Axl decided that: Well, you know, I don't know what's really going on with me, and I know that L.A. Guns is doing it's thing. So, you know, why don't we just continue writing songs together, since we live together and everything? And I was like: Yeah, of course -- you know, do whatever we want. And then we came up with the name Guns N' Roses -- you know, it just made sense. You know, it was like: Hey, you know? I'm Tracii Guns and you're Axl Rose. Let's just, you know, kinda put it together. Yeah, so we'll put out singles and we'll call it Guns N' Roses.

Spin, July 1999

Tracii and Axl back in 1985.

A couple of years later, Axl would claim that he was the one who came up with the name together with his old friend Izzy Stradlin (age 22 at the time) and not mention Tracii as part of this origin story. Also, the foundation for the new band, according to Axl, happened earlier when Axl was still singing in LA Guns:

[...] during the time I was in LA Guns, Izzy and I started doing stuff on the side and calling it Guns N' Roses.

Hit Parader, May 1987

This is likely not entirely correct. It seems reasonable that Tracii would have been part of coining the name by providing the "Guns" to Axl's "Rose". Axl would also acknowledge Tracii's part in the formation of Guns N' Roses in later interviews:

The name Guns N' Roses come from Tracii Guns and Axl Rose.

Postshow interview (CGBGs), October 1987

We got together, and we were going to change the name or something - and I was always going to do some solo stuff with Tracii anyway. And I said we’ll call it Guns & Roses. So we just decided to call the band that. And then, when Tracii and I quit working together, I just kept the name cause I thought of it and it was really working for us; plus we really dug the hell out of the name. Simple.

Rock City News, January 8, 1988

In 2005, Tracii would also reiterate his involvement in founding the band:

Axl ended up singing for LA Guns until he got in a fight with our manager [=Raz Cue]. But Axl decided we should continue writing songs together since we lived together. Then we came up with the name Guns N' Roses - it was like: 'I'm Tracii Guns and you're Axl Rose'.

Classic Rock, April 2005

In 2008, Axl would likely suggest that the concept to the band originated before the name came about:

The name does come from mine and Traci’s as the original inspiration but was something I played with not Traci and Guns was Guns before Traci joined. It was Guns Before I knocked on Izzy’s window.

mygnrforum.com, December 14, 2008

So it seems likely that the start of what would become Guns N' Roses did happen earlier than that Halloween evening of 1984, but that putting the Guns N' Roses name to the growing idea of the new band happened that night. This also exemplifies the fact that bands often don't just suddenly originate, but evolve from other bands and band constellations, that they gradually form as the right band members come together at the right moment in time. This is very much the case of Guns N' Roses and the various precursor bands, like Hollywood Rose and Road Crew, and band members will be discussed in future chapters of this story.

Marc Canter, a friend of Axl and Traci's, would suggest they started the band some weeks later, around December 1984:

And then literally at that same time [as the New Hollywood Rose reunion show], Axl and Tracii put together a side project just simply for writing music only. And they decided to take a piece of each name, Guns and Roses, I mean L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, Guns and Roses. And it was a side project.

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

HOW TO SPELL THE BAND NAME AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

In the band's first years the band name was written in various ways, Guns & Roses, Guns and Roses, etc. In late 1987, Duff would explain the correct way:

There's a bit of confusion. The "approved" version should be Guns N' Roses, but it really doesn't matter that much.

Concert Shots, January 1988

According to a 1989 article, Axl would explain the name:

Literally translated it means "Guns and Roses". However, Guns N' Roses is also the name of the Los Angeles group "Hell's Angels", Sicilian slang for a hitman ("First we'll send you guns, then we'll shower you with roses..."), street slang for a macho guy and a sexy girl. However you understand that name, we will agree with you!

Rock-Pop, January 1989; translated from Serbian

WHY CONTINUE WORKING TOGETHER AFTER LA GUNS?

A conundrum here is that Axl and Tracii had disagreed over musical direction while playing together in LA Guns [for more information on Axl and Tracii in LA Guns, see later chapters]. Why then would they want to form a new band together? One explanation could be that they intended Guns N' Roses to be musically different to LA Guns. Or perhaps they just admired each other too much, despite any musical differences that might have been? Axl shed some light on this in 1989:

The first time Tracii and I went our own directions, we decided we’d still get together to write some stuff because we still appreciated each other. And we’d call it Guns N' Roses when we collaborated.

Creem Close-Up Metal, September 1989

Tracii would later describe them as being "connected at the hip":

But at that time, Axl and I were attached at the hip. So we decided we were going to continue playing together, we just had to figure out in what configuration. And then I was like, “Well, Izzy’s not doing anything, why don’t we just add him to the band?”

The initial idea with Axl was “Hey, let’s just write and record and we’ll go out and play new songs.” And somehow we came up with the name Guns and Rose, which was just his last name and my last name. And then within five minutes Axl’s like, “Nah, man, Guns and Roses.” And I’m like, “Yeah, that’s a great band name.”

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Or perhaps Guns N' Roses wasn't intended as a band at all, but as a record label for releasing singles from the bands Hollywood Rose and LA Guns, as Tracii stated in 2010:

We're all living together at this point and Axl and I sat down and went 'What are we going to do?' So we both said 'Fuck that', and came up with the name Guns N' Roses which was going to be just a record label that we'd put singles out on.

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

In his great book, Reckless Road, Marc Canter, who was a friend of Guns N' Roses, would state that "Guns N' Roses originally began as a side project of Axl's and Tracii's" [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007] confirming both of their involvement but also the somewhat down-prioritized status of the band in its very beginning, whichn makes sense considering the other bands the guys were involved in around that time.

THE FIRST MONTHS - LA GUNS NEEDS A SINGER

As far as we know, not much happened with Guns N' Roses in 1984 after the two guys on the couch first came up with the name. It seemed to have been an idea, a concept, but not much more. Then, in early 1985, Tracii got in a fight with the new singer in LA Guns (the singer who had replaced Axl), Mike Jagosz, and Jagosz was not a friend of Axl, as Raz Cue would explain:

About a week into 1985, I arrived to the studio to find Tracii and Mike yelling and screaming at one another. A piss-drunk Mike had pawned Tracii's bookshelf speakers to buy more cocktails. [...] As Tracii stormed away, Mike yelled, "If you do that guns and roses thing, I am going to quit." Once everything calmed down, I asked, "What was that you said earlier, 'guns and roses'?" Mike sneered, "Tracii wants to do a jam band with Bill [=Axl] and call it "Guns and Roses."

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 186

This supports the theory that Tracii and Axl came up with Guns N' Roses already back in 1984 but that it hadn't evolved into a full band yet.

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:27 am

MARCH 1985

MERGING WITH LA GUNS AND ADDING IZZY

According to Raz Cue, the argument between Tracii and Mike Jagosz in LA Guns resulted in Tracii firing Jagosz from the band. With Jagosz gone, Axl - who was not a friend of Jagosz - spent more time with LA Guns again [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 195]. But Tracii and LA Guns had a problem, the band had one more gig already booked at the Troubadour for March 26, 1985, but they had no singer. According to Cue, Tracii then asked if Axl wanted to do a one-off, one more show with LA Guns as the singer, and Axl agreed. Cue then claims to have suggested they'd do it under the "Guns N' Roses" name and that they'd also bring in Izzy [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 197]:

By the following afternoon, Tracii had put together an L.A. Guns flyer with pictures of him, Axl, Robbie [Gardner; drums] and Ole [Beich; bass]. When Axl dropped by to approve the artwork, I said, "If you two are going to jam together, why not bring Izzy in and do that Guns and Roses thing you talked about?" Axl did a double take, gave me one of his dog-eat-dog sly smiles, and then, after a slight pause, nodded and said, "That sounds cool. I'll see if Izzy'll do it" [...] If it sounds like I, trying to claim credit for coming up with the name, I'm not. Axl Rose conjured up Guns N' Roses all by himself, combining surnames Tracii (Guns) and Axl (Rose). It's just until that very point in time, Axl had no idea I even knew he and Tracii had considered a side project. All I am laying claim to is this: Guns N' Roses formed in my living room after I suggested Izzy join in on a previously booked L.A. Guns show."

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 197

This happened a couple of weeks before the March 26 show, so it must have been in early March 1986 [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 198].

From the following quote by Traci it is suggested Izzy joined Axl and Traci in Guns N' Roses first, and then they added Gardner and Beich to fill out the band with bass and drums:

So once Axl and Izzy and I started doing Guns N’ Roses, we got Rob Gardner and [bassist] Ole Beich, who had been playing in L.A. Guns for the past year. It was just kind of like, “Hey guys, we’re going to do this new band now…” Our first show was at the Troubadour.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Izzy would later mention Axl asking him to "come back", which refers to Izzy having left their previous band Hollywood Rose:

Axl came back. He showed up at my apartment saying he wanted to start the band up again. It seemed like a good idea.

Press Kit for 117 Degrees, January 1998

This indicates that to Axl, Izzy was an important part of the future of the band. Izzy was the first piece to be added to the puzzle. As discussed in the repvious chapter, Axl would talk about knocking on Izzy's window and how the band in a sense was meant to include Izzy even before the name had been coined:

The name does come from mine and Traci’s as the original inspiration but was something I played with not Traci and Guns was Guns before Traci joined. It was Guns Before I knocked on Izzy’s window.

mygnrforum.com, December 14, 2008

Desi, Izzy's girlfriend at the time, would also mention Axl knocking on Izzy's window and that at a time Izzy was about to give up and leave Los Angeles:

Axl was working at Tower Video on Sunset when Izzy introduced us, even though there was bad blood between them at the time. Later that night, Axl showed up at our apartment, knocked on our window and said that he wanted to talk. Izzy was ready to go back to Indiana and give it up because he had been out here for five years. The band Hollywood Rose had never been signed and he was ready to give up. I encouraged him not to give up and Axl convinced him to give it a shot.

Marc Canter, Reckless Life, 2007[/url]

Interestingly, Axl would later also mention he already at this stage thought about bringing the lead guitar player Slash into the band when asked if he had another alternative band name:

Going into GUNS, there wasn't a #2. At that time I was going to make it in a band that started as GUNS N' ROSES and could evolve but that was the starting point and it was all the way or bust. I knew what I wanted when I knocked on Izzy's window. I also knew I wanted Slash but we still had differences and Izzy wasn't down with it.

mygnrforum.com, December 14, 2008

As mentioned above, when Axl knocked on Izzy's window to have him "come back", the band Izzy was thinking about was Hollywood Rose where he had played with Axl before he quit to join the band London. It is likely Izzy considered this new band to just be Hollywood Rose with a different name and perhaps some new members, and this exemplifies the fluidity of the bands in the rock scene of Hollywood at the time: they evolved and changed, slightly morphing from one band to what could be called a different band, and sometimes the band names didn't mean as much as the players who were in the band. It wasn't so much about what the band was called, but who else were playing there.

When Guns N' Roses played their first show in March 1985, it consisted indeed of members of Hollywood Rose who had joined members of LA Guns -- or the opposite way around -- to play under the new band name Guns N' Roses as coined by Tracii and Axl. The band was Axl Rose on vocals, Izzy Stradlin on guitar (or "Izzy Stranded" as he referred to himself back then), Tracii Guns on lead guitar, Rob (Robbie) Gardner on drums, and Ole Beich on bass. Ole and Rob were bandmates of Tracii in LA Guns, Axl and Izzy came from Hollywood Rose (although as explained above, at the time Izzy had left that band and joined London). These first members of Guns N' Roses formed two factions, with Axl and Izzy being good friends who were originally from Lafayette, Indiana, and Tracii, Rob and Ole being from LA Guns and having a more heavy metal approach to playing music.

Being well-known musicians in the rock scene of Hollywood meant that Guns N' Roses got a kickstart. People were curious about this new constellation.

We had a really good crowd. A new name, a new vibe. As a band we were really together.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Tracii would later talk about their vision for the new band and Izzy's importance on deciding what the band should sound like:

It was like we [=Tracii and Axl] were two guys who had a vision, he had grown up with Izzy and I had lived with Izzy for about a year when he joined LA Guns, now Izzy Stradlin was a real visionary in terms of what should be next. What is cool, what is not cool, what is going to last, what is not going to last, and we both we got this kind of education from Izzy's attitude..so at that point Axl and I would talk about not sounding like anyone else but drawing from our influences...but making it our own and if we had a part in a song that sounded like anybody else we would change it immediately! 'Cause we both knew we had what it took to change things and get it sounding as original as possible.

By the time we got into Guns N' Roses, we decided we wanted to be a heavy Aerosmith..we're going to have a funky swagger, with big giant distorted guitars and a higher octave lead vocal..that was ground breaking at that point. Led Zeppelin had a lot of the same qualities but they didn't have a punk rock attitude that we were trying to inject..by the time I got to LA Guns again and got up with Mick Cripps, who was the other guitar player in LA Guns, he was also a real music visionary, wanting to do things over the top and in a campy way and not a cheesy way. Meaning that ok if what is happening right now is a glam, look we have to do something more evil with it. We have to wear more leather and be dirtier and make sure nothing looks store bought and our makeup has to be all over our face and not pretty, you know what I mean?

There was a lot of discussion about doing things that other people were doing but doing it better and different. So umm..there was every intention in my mind since working with Axl of always trying to break the status quo. We could be another Aerosmith or Stones, we could do that but then you're just a copy cat. How do you not be a copy cat? Especially when everything that was cool had almost already been done. So there was always a little bit more thought behind it...you spend an extra ten minutes in writing, an extra ten minutes in a photo shoot so that you don't look like every other rocker who has worked with that photographer..and you present yourself differently and hope that in terms of what you are pioneering that people respect you. It's a lot like the Ramones, they didn't sell the most records in the world but they were pioneering and they really made their mark and everyone knows who they are and that's a good way to be.

All Access Magazine, June 2010

Rob, Izzy, Axl, Tracii, Ole. [Unknown image copyright]

FIRST REHEARSAL AT WILLIE BASSE'S STUDIO

The band now had a few weeks to rehearse together and prepare for their first show in March 1985. The first rehearsal took place at Willie Basse's Wilpower Studios:

I'm well aware it's a common phenomenon for folks to believe their friends' mediocre band is great. But that very first rehearsal was totally awesome, dude. It was immediately evident Guns N' Roses were beyond something special. Without a doubt, L.A. Guns had delivered some major ass-kicking with Axl Rose up front, but the addition of Izzy and the new songs "Don't Cry," "Move to the City," and "Think About You" blew my mind.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 198

Tracii would explain what music they played and how he and Izzy worked out the guitar parts:

It was a mixture of these heavier L.A. Guns songs and I had helped working on some Hollywood Rose songs, which were really the tracks that became Guns N' Roses songs later. It was cool because Izzy and I were very systematic about how we would play in the band together. It was really fun structuring the L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose songs for two guitars. We'd spend a lot more time making two really different guitar parts and two different guitar sounds. More than anything it was an incredible experience. That's when I really learned how to play with another guy. Izzy's so talented - not like a real master and he's definitely not a shredder - but he's just got a brilliant brain for music.

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

But this lineup was not to last long…

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:27 am

SONG: DON'T CRY

Album:
Use Your Illusion I, 1991, track no. 4.

Use Your Illusion II, 1991, track no. 13.

Written by:
Izzy Stradlin and Axl Rose.

Musicians:
Drums: Matt
Bass: Duff
Lead and Rhythm Guitars: Slash
Rhythm Guitar: Izzy
Piano: Dizzy
Vocals: Axl, Shannon Hoon
Background Vocals: Izzy

Information:
This song was originally called 'Don't Cry Tonight'. An early version must have written in late 1984 since it was debuted at the Hollywood Rose Reunion show in December 1984. IN March 1985, Izzy would say it had been written "a couple of weeks ago" [KPFK interview, March 1985].

Only the vocal tracks differ between the two versions found on the Use Your Illusions, and even then only in the verses; however, in those verses, not only are the words entirely different, but the meter and melody are also slightly different. There is also a third version, officially released only on the single for the song, which was recorded during Appetite for Destruction sessions in 1986 [Wikipedia].

Live performances:
The song was played for the first time by Hollywood Rose on December 31, 1984. It was also on the set-list for GN'Rs first gig with the Appetite for Destruction lineup on June 6, 1985. It was played extensively up till 2001. It was reintroduced into the regular sets in 2009 after Bumblefoot had used the melody as his personal solo for a while. In total it has, as of {UPDATEDATE}, at least been played {DCSONGS} times.

Lyrics:

Version of Use Your Illusion I (original):

Talk to me softly
There's something in your eyes
Don't hang your head in sorrow
And please don't cry
I know how you feel inside I've
I've been there before
Somethin's changin' inside you
And don't you know

Don't you cry tonight
I still love you baby
Don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry tonight

Give me a whisper
And give me a sigh
Give me a kiss before you tell me goodbye
Don't you take it so hard now
And please don't take it so bad
I'll still be thinkin' of you
And the times we had...baby

And don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry tonight

And please remember that I never lied
And please remember
How I felt inside now honey
You gotta make it your own way
But you'll be alright now sugar
You'll feel better tomorrow
Come the morning light now baby

And don't you cry tonight
And don't you cry tonight
And don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry
Don't you ever cry
Don't you cry tonight
Baby maybe someday
Don't you cry
Don't you ever cry
Don't you cry
Tonight

Version of Use Your Illusion II (alternative):

If we could see tomorrow
What of your plans
No one can live in sorrow
Ask all your friends
Times that you took in stride
They're back in demand
I was the one who's washing
Blood off your hands

Don't you cry tonight
I still love you baby
Don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry tonight

I know the things you wanted
They're not what you have
With all the people talkin' it's drivin' you mad
If I was standin' by you how would you feel
Knowing your love's decided
And all love is real

And don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
Don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry tonight

I thought I could live in your world
As years all went by
With all the voices I've heard
Something has died
And when you're in need of someone
My heart won't deny you
So many seem so lonely
With no one left to cry to baby

And don't you cry tonight
And don't you cry tonight
And don't you cry tonight
There's a heaven above you baby
And don't you cry
Don't you ever cry
Don't you cry tonight
Baby maybe someday
Don't you cry
Don't you ever cry
Don't you cry
Tonight

Quotes regarding the song and its making:

Talking about writing the song:

When we first wrote the song, it was the first song for Guns N' Roses. [...] Actually, we weren't Guns N' Roses yet but it was starting to become a reality and Izzy and I wrote a song and decided that we needed to get back together. [...] which was one of our most Hanoi Rocks influenced songs. We knew we had something. [...] I was sitting outside the Roxy and I was really in love with this person and she was realizing this wasn't going to work, she wanted to do other things, and she was telling my goodbye, and I sat down and just started crying a little bit and she was telling me, "Don't cry." [...] Next night we got together and wrote the song in five minutes.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

It was a girl that Izzy had gone out with and now she's a tattoo on my arm [?] [...] and I was really attracted to her and they split up.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

It was [about] a girl that Izzy had gone out with, and I was really attracted to her, and they split up, and we wrote the song (...) I was sitting outside the Roxy, and you know, I was like really in love with this person, and she was realising this wasn't going to work, she was doing her things, she was telling me goodbye, and I like sat down, and just started crying, and she was telling me 'don't cry'. Next night we got together and wrote the song in 5 minutes. He'd been through some things with her, himself. It really means that even though the the relationship is not going to work, you shouldn't feel bad, time will heal, and you will feel much better. Everything is for the best. Heaven is above you, God is there to protect you, everything is going to be fine. Don't take it so hard.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

[Nicky Beat] had a rehearsal studio in his house in Silverlake where we'd go, set up our gear, and jam, and that is where the whole band really came together. Izzy had something called 'Think About You' that we liked, and we revisited 'Don't Cry,' which was the first song I'd ever worked on with Izzy.

"Slash", 2007

When I first hooked up back together with Axl and Izzy, that was the song Izzy and Axl were working on. So that was my first having to deal with another guitar player. It was on Don’t Cry. I’m going to Izzy’s house and hanging out with him to try and build up some sort of a chemistry. So that song is actually pretty classic in my mind.

Guns N' Roses: The Hits - 1992

After three nights [of rehearsals] we had a fully realized set that also included 'Don't Cry' and 'Shadow Of Your Love', and so we unanimously decided that we were now fit for public consumption.

"Slash", 2007

Introducing the song:

This song's called 'Don't Cry Tonight' and it's a song Axl and I just wrote a couple of weeks ago. It's kinda a sad song. But it is cool. So you know everybody, grab a Kleenex.

KPFK, March 1985

This is a new, alternate version of the first song we wrote in Guns N' Roses and kinda the reason we got signed. Some people in Hollywood got pissed off we never put it on record [?]. So we got three version of the song on record. This is called 'Don't Cry' and this is my friend Shannon.

Inglewood, August 2, 1991

This next one is the first song that was written for Guns N’ Roses. I went over to Izzy’s and it was like, I threw some rocks at his window. He came to the window and, I don't know, he was worried I came over there to kick his ass (laughs). We’d been in an argument for a few months. So anyway, you know, it was like the Blues Brothers: "We gotta get the band back together, we gotta get the band together!” We sat down and I go, "Hey, I got some really depressing lyrics." He goes, "Oh dude, I got a really depressing guitar part." I was like, "Perfect, we got it made then.”

Hard Rock Live at Etess Arena, Atlantic City, NJ, USA, September 12, 2021

Talking about releasing two versions:

There will be a version of 'Don't Cry' on both records, one on the first one and one on the second. The one on the first one is the newly recorded version of the original lyrics and the second one is the newly recorded version of alternative lyrics, kinda like a '91 update. It's got different words and melody in the verses and it kinda happened while I was recording the other one. That's the song that basically, one of the reasons we got signed. People in LA that has been our fans since we started playing in clubs were always bummed we didn't put it on the record but we were kinda trying to save what we considered one of our ace cards, cause we didn't know if we'd sell five records, you know, or what (laughter). […] I don’t know that, if it’s more upbeat or anything. It’s just kind of where my head is at with that song now, you know, rather than making a nostalgia piece. When we do the new one, I hear it. And a lot of people that liked the original and it was their favorite song – they have license plates that say “Don’t Cry” or whatever - heard the new one and kind of flipped out, like, “How did you do that?” I don’t know! But, you know, when we were in the studio, I was like, “I don’t know what’s happening, Mike, but let’s just let me go with it." And it worked out really nice. And my friend, Shannon Hoon - he's in a band, Blind Melon - he’s from Indiana and they were doing Don’t Cry back there. They got a bootleg demo tape in Lafayette.

Interview with Axl Rose, May 1991

The original Don’t Cry was, like, the first song written for Guns N’ Roses. And then, when I was in the studio recording it, I started hearing different words and melody while I was singing the old one. And it was one of the last songs we did. And I just... we just put on another track and went for it. And I like the new one better, cuz it’s where I’m at now. It’s kind of where the band is at now. The old one means a lot to me, because of the nostalgia, and the history of our band, and the history of our lives for me. You know, I can see all kinds of things in that song when I sing it or when I hear it. But the new one is kind of where I’m at now. And the video that we just did for Don’t Cry fits even better with the new lyrics than the old one.

Rockline, November 27, 1991

I don't know that it's more up-beat or anything it's just where my head's are with that song now, you know, rather than make a nostalgia piece (...) And a lot of people who liked the original and it was their favourite song, license plates that says "Don't Cry" and whatever, heard the new one and kinda flip out like "How did you do that?", I don't know (laughter). But when I was in the studio I was like, "I don't know what's happening, Mike, but just let me go with it". And it worked out really nice.

Interview with Axl Rose, 1991

While I was recording the original version I started hearing another melody and words in my head. It really surprised me. I told Mike Clink, our producer, "Put me on another track! I don't know what's happening here but I've got a different song coming through my head and I want to get that on tape".

Shadow boxing with Axl Rose, June 1992

A whole new set of words for the verses and a melody for these words started happening while I was singing the parts. I started hearing this stuff in my head, and I was like, “Mike, put me on another track.” He’s like, “Why?” and I go, “I don’t know, just I gotta go with this, it’s too strong to stop.” […] I prefer the new version, because the original is kind of like a nostalgia piece for me that takes me through, like, the history of Guns N’ Roses.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

Talking about recording the song:

When we recorded that song originally, we were driving the engineer nuts in Hollywood, and Steven wanted more high hat. And finally the guy cracked and he pulled a gun on us. Unlike Ryan Lochte and his gun, our gun was real.

Sao Paolo, Brazil, November 11, 2016

Discussing the song:

[…]but the first GN’R song that we wrote for the band was 'Don’t Cry'. […] we saved it, cuz we really liked it and it was our most successful song here in Hollywood, on the club circuit. And so we saved it cuz we didn’t know if we were gonna sell five records or a million records of the first one…[…] ...So we wanted to make sure we had a good song ready for the second [chuckles].

Rockline, November 27, 1991

It’s a love song, a pretty emotional tune for Axl to sing.

Chicago Tribune, May 1991

[Talking about the time when he entered the band] Izzy and Axl already had some songs, and the other guys knew them: "Think About You," "Anything Goes," "Move To The City," "Shadow of Your Love," and "Don't Cry." And we did sped-up punk versions of the Stones' "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel".

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 59

It was one of the first songs we started playing as a band, in the incarnation, and it really put us across in the clubs. [...] It was something we would have recorded for the first record [...] Money was not allotted to do as much as we wanted to do.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

[The audiences] liked 'Welcome to the Jungle' and stuff but 'Don't Cry' was, like, the most popular song. [...] It never came out feeling just right [for the first record] [...] and it was our most successful song to save it [for the next record].

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

As a matter of fact, it is, like, one of the only songs I remember from the club days, it was like the only audible song because the rest were so loud. [...] I think it all just has to do with hope, you can't give up home or your dreams.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

We've added a lot of new life to it, especially with Matt playing the drums. [...] It has kinda taken a new life, which is cool.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

We opened for speed metal bands and we'd do all our fast songs but we'd also do 'Don't Cry', and these guys with spikes all the way up their arms came up [to us] and loved that song.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

My friend Shannon Hoon, he's in a band Blind Melon, he's from Indiana and they were doing "Don't Cry" back there. They got a bootleg demo tape in Lafayette (...) and he's got a really gorgeous voice so we do kinda like a duet on the songs.

Interview with Axl Rose, 1991

It’s one of the first songs that we started playing as a band in the incarnation, and it really kind of put us across in the clubs.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

Shannon Hoon would also talk about how he ended up singing on the song:

I got it on this shitty-ass tape [=an early bootleg featuring the demo version] from someone, who knew someone, who knew someone. [...] I used to play in a cover tune band in Indiana, and we used to cover the song Don’t Cry, cuz it was a song that no one back there – everybody was into GN’R, but these were songs that weren’t on the Appetite album. […] It was kind of accident. It was kind of just open mic night at the Record Plant in Hollywood. […] I was singing along with it and I think – I don’t know, I’m not sure how it came about, but Axl came in, and Izzy said something, I think, to Axl that I was singing along with it. Then Axl asked me if I knew the song and I said yes. So he had a couple of background parts to do, and I went and sang a couple of background parts, and it sounded cool. And then he was like, “Well, fuck it. Sing the whole song." […] I do a lot of whoo-whoo’s. I do a lot of whoo-whoo’s, not in the studio as a matter of fact.

Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I, June 22, 1993

Talking about reintroducing the song to the set in 2006:

It was May 2006, my first tour with GNR. Fans would email daily asking if we could please play 'Don't Cry.' I remember standing alone on stage in front of 100,000 people, taking a solo, and I just started playing it on my own, motioning the audience to sing along. For the next year that became part of my solo, a lone guitar rendition, the audience singing along, a moment where we'd really connect each night. One of the last shows after a year of touring, I played it as an encore and Axl joined in and sang it, for the first time in over a decade. [We] started adding it back into the set after that. Always loved the song, but after all that it has an added personal meaning to me now.

Guitar World, September 30, 2011

I knew Don't Cry from when it first came out, 15 years before I joined. In the first weeks I joined, fans wrote to me a lot asking if we could play the song - we didn't, so I did. Give the people what they want.

GnR Paraguay, March 2012

From the classic GNR songs, I like Don't Cry. The song started off as my solo in 2006, playing it myself and the audience would sing, it's always been the song where I feel a big connection with the audience. The connection is important to me. I don't like separation between audience and band, I like it when we're all together, and making the music together.

Komsomolskaya Pravda (Belarus), April 22, 2014

And being asked about his favorite GN'R song:

Don't Cry

Simple & beautiful & dynamic Smile

Reddit / AMA, December 27, 2013

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:28 am

MARCH 1985

DUFF REPLACES OLE

In March 1985 the newly formed Guns N' Roses consisted of Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner. With a show coming up at the Troubadour on March 26, the band was rehearsing and preparing. But for the band's third rehearsal at Willie Basse's studio, they struggled to get hold of Ole:

I will remain a fan of Ole Beich till it's time for my dirt nap. [...] I still miss the guy and feel awful that he didn't seem to care enough at the time to make sure he stayed in Guns N' Roses. Unfortunately, at times the dude could be a real downer, sullen while keeping to himself [...] After that second practice, another rehearsal was set for a tentative "in a few days." Ole neglected to tell anyone of his newest girlfriend, so when the next practice got scheduled, there was no way to get ahold of him. After three days of not hearing from him, and rehearsal scheduled for the following evening, Izzy said, "If Ole doesn't want to be in the band, there's a guy who lives across the street from me who'll do the show."

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 199

Then Ole was the first to leave. And Ole was cool as shit. He was a Danish guy and he had played with Mercyful Fate. But he was like, “No, it’s not metal enough…”

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

So Ole was out of the band almost before it started. The "guy" Izzy knew across the street and could replace Ole, was Duff McKagan.

Steve Darrow had been present when Izzy met Duff in late 1984:

Izzy and I actually ran into Duff in the parking lot of the am/pm across from the Whisky. And Izzy said, "I think I know that guy. I think I met that guy at a party or something." Duff had just moved into town from Seattle and was playing with this guy Michael McMahon n a power-pop band. Izzy started talking to him and asking about what his situation was. Duff described the kind of music he was looking to play: Stones, New York Dolls, Hanoi Rocks. Izzy was impressed and probably thinking in the back of his head that if things don't go well with me, he would definitely call Duff because he wanted to create exactly what Izzy had in mind.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

It has also been said that the band found Duff by placing an ad in a local magazine [Kerrang! March 1989], although this is more likely the ad Slash and Steven placed to recruit a new bass player for their band, Road Crew earlier [for more information Road Crew, see later chapter].

Tracii would remember Izzy suggesting that Duff should replace Ole:

Duff was in some weird Top 40 band, but Izzy was like, 'This guy's got short hair, but he is into New York Dolls and stuff like that.' He had a Johnny Thunders T-shirt on, and we were like, 'This guy's perfect.'

The Days of Wine and Roses, Classic Rock, April 2005

And then I started playing with Axl, Izzy and a couple of other guys, called Guns N’ Roses.

Circus Magazine, November 1991

Ole was much more metal. And L.A. Guns was much more metal. But then once the change came around with Hollywood Rose there was a little more glam involved. And Ole didn’t like wearing makeup and that kind of stuff. So then we replaced Ole with Duff, who had come down from Seattle and knew Izzy.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

When Izzy was living with his girlfriend, Desi, I think it was on North Orange near Grauman’s Chinese Theatre, Duff lived across the street from him. And one day Izzy called me up and he goes, “Hey, man, I’m friends with this guy, he plays with the Michael McMahon band. They play Top 40.” And I’m like, “Top 40?” He goes, “Yeah, but this guy can play anything.”

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Duff would later discuss meeting and playing with Izzy:

And then I started playing with Axl, Izzy and a couple of other guys, called Guns N’ Roses.

Circus Magazine, November 1991

Then I met Izzy and he moved in across the street. I lived in this real bad neighborhood in Hollywood. […] So with Izzy, we see each other walking down the street, and I think he saw me carrying a bass and he goes, "Me and a buddy of mine (Axl) just got a band together. Do you wanna play bass?" I said, "Sure." I'll try anything once. So I went out there, and there was a drummer and this other guitar player.

Guitar for the Practising Musician, April 1992

And within, you know, the first couple weeks [after coming to Los Angeles] we moved into this apartment, Izzy moved across the street.
So there's this guy, who does look like me. You know, and he's like, “Hey man” – you know, I was coming out, “Hey.” He said, “Hey, my name is Izzy. You’re playing in a band?” I said, “Well, not yet, man, not yet. I just moved here” and I told him my story. He was like, “Yeah, man, I’ve been out here from Indiana for about a year-and- a-half. I’m looking to do something new, and this guy from Indiana came out with me, the singer, and we want to form a band.” And so that was the first Guns N’ Roses, and it was Izzy and Axl, Tracii Guns, and this drummer kid, Rob Gardner.

Planet Rocks, December 14, 2008

[Izzy] he wasn't a great guitar player, but I liked that - both in him and in general. I wasn't a great guitar player, either. It was a punk thing. One night we were talking after a rehearsal, Izzy mentioned a band called Naughty Women. It rang a bell. "I know that band," I said, trying to place the name. "I think I played a gig with them once. wait, wait, wait. Were they...cross-dressers?" "Yep," Izzy said. He paused. "I was the drummer," he said. Cool, I thought., this guy really was a veteran of the punk-rock club scene. He was the real deal.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 58-59

I had an apartment behind the Chinese Theatre that was, like, two hundred bucks a month. Super cheap. It was a crime-ridden little street. There was an alley behind it where drugs were sold. I knew none of this, but it didn’t matter. I was nineteen. And Izzy moved in across the street. Izzy wasn’t one of those long-hair guys I saw on the posters with the outfits, you know? And to be honest with you, neither was Slash or Steven. But one day I saw this Johnny Thunders–looking guy at the phone booth across the street and we started talking and he told me about this band he was putting together with his friend from Indiana, Axl. And I knew who that was. I’m like, “I’ve seen that guy!”

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

And rehearsing for the first time with Axl:

But [we got together] at this rehearsal place and he got on a mic to sort of check the P.A. and he had two voices coming out. It was kind of a low undertone and this really high, strong voice. And he was serious. He moved from Indiana, Izzy moved from Indiana, I moved from Seattle. We weren't here to jam. We weren't here to be in a high school band. We wanted to start something and mean it.

Bass Frontiers, November 8, 2015

This version of how Duff met Izzy and ended up in Guns N' Roses is also confirmed by Raz Cue [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 199].

Marc Canter would say they played one show with Ole Beich before he left, but this is likely not true:

And they used the bass player, Ole Beich from L.A. Guns, and the drummer Rob Gardner. And it was Axl and Izzy from, you know, Hollywood Rose. And they played one gig, their bass player quit and then they hired Duff, Duff lived right, you know, like across from them near the Coconut Teazer.

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

Duff and Tracii. [Unknown image copyright]

Cue would comment on Ole leaving:

I sometimes wonder if it was a political play by Izzy, so Tracii would not have two automatic band-votes on his side to vote-block against him and Axl. But I think it far more likely Izzy felt Ole wasn't into it, and his style made G N' R too metal. I don't know the answer, but the next night, Izzy showed up to Wilpower Studios to introduce Duff Rose. That was his name the first time I met him, and we all knew it was a sign. Ole was an old-school, brain-damage, hard-rock 'n' roller, devoid of even the slightest punk influence. But Duff was an O.G. Seattle punk, pre-grunge glamster with a far more upbeat personality, a cool bro to hang out with, a world class musician, and no doubt perfect for Guns N' Roses. [...] Ole was surprised when I broke the news to him, but didn't argue or even ask me why until years later.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 199

In September 1987, someone in Guns N' Roses would refer to Ole as the "dumb schmuck bass player" [Rock Scene, September 1987]. This was probably Izzy since Axl was likely not present at the time when those words were spoken and none of the other guys (Slash, Steven and Duff) were in the band together with Ole (although they likely knew him from the Hollywood music scene).

Duff would reminisce about the first rehearsal he did with the band:

When I showed up at my first GN'R rehearsal in late March, 1985, Axl and I said hi to each other and started joking around about this and that. I liked him right away. Whoever was running the sound then asked Axl to test out the microphone. Axl let out one of his screams, and it was like nothing I had ever heard. There was two voices coming out at once! There's a name for that in musicology, but all I knew in that instant was that this dude was different and powerful and fucking serious. He hadn't yet entirely harnessed his voice - he was more unique than great at that point - but it was clear he hadn't moved out to Hollywood from Indiana for the weather. He was there to stake a claim and show the whole fucking world what he had.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 58

And Traciii would recollect meeting Duff for the first time at this rehearsal:

I’ll never forget the first time I saw Duff. We pull up to our rehearsal space in the Valley at this guy Willie Basse’s place. It was, like, nine in the morning, and Duff was sitting on the hood of a car drinking a Foster’s Lager. I’d never seen anybody, not even my dad, drink a beer at nine in the morning. But he looked really cool, and when he plugged in and started playing he was legit, man. He could play anything from “YYZ” by Rush to “Richie Dagger’s Crime” by the Germs. And that was a really good rehearsal because he had learned all our stuff. Izzy had shown him everything.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

And Tracii would talk about working with Izzy:

Well, he was the silent controller, and I was the vocal one. You know, it was like he'd say: Trace -- you know, I got this idea. You know, what do you think about this? And, you know, blah blah blah. And I'd go: Well, you know, that's all right. But if we do this, it might make it a little harder, or a little cooler.

Spin, July 1999

In mid-to-late March the band did their very first radio interview with KFPK FM Los Angeles. This interview came just hours after the band has been in Willie Basse's studio recording early versions of the songs 'Think About You', 'Don't Cry' and 'Anything Goes'. During 'Anything Goes', Axl can be heard introducing Duff as a new guy. The band members also say they are going to release a picture disc EP with these songs as well as 'Heartbreak Hotel', although this EP was probably never released. Tracii's mom recorded the interview and handed a copy to Cue [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 200]

Talking about joining Guns N' Roses and indicating things weren't good in the beginning:

After [Road Crew] I got together with Axl and Izzy; they had a band and they said, can you come and play bass for us? It was already called Guns N’ Roses, but there was another guy on guitar called Tracii [Guns] and a different drummer [Rob Gardener], and it was a real iffy band. Like, I would hardly show up for rehearsal, and that is not like me. I am always the first guy to show up at rehearsal, the first guy to do everything like that.

Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from January 1990

Describing the band:

Rob was a good drummer. And Tracii was quite a guitar player. He was a shredder. And we played a couple shows at places like the Dancing Waters.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 am

MARCH 26, 1985, THE TROUBADOUR

GUNS N' ROSES PLAYS ITS FIRST CONCERT

[...] the Troubadour is pretty much their home club. That was where it all went down.

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

____________________________

The first Guns N' Roses show was held on the legendary West Hollywood concert venue The Troubadour on March 26, 1985. This was the show that had originally been intended as an LA Guns show but had fallen apart when the singer Mike Jagozs left or was fired from the band.

Doug Weston's Troubadour.

Although The Troubadour has maintained its reputation as a legendary Hollywood bar and concert scene even to this day, it wasn't necessarily very difficult to get shows there back in the 80s, as Duff explains below, but difficult to get shows at the coveted nights of Fridays and Saturdays when more people were out and about:

There was a lot of politics with the Troubadour. There was an older woman that ran the Troubadour and she would ban you. This woman was not somebody you would necessarily fuck with. […] [At] the Troubadour […] you could always manage to get a spot -- maybe not a weekend night, but a Monday or Tuesday. At the Troubadour, we had to pay for lights and sound, which was a racket.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

Advertisement ad in L.A. Weekly for Guns N' Roses very first show on March 26, 1985, describing its recent founding:

Ad in L.A. Weekly, March 22, 1985

The lineup of the band was Axl, Izzy, Tracii, Rob and the "new guy" Duff. It is assumed the setlist consisted of songs from Hollywood Rose as well as more recent songs, including 'Anything Goes', 'Think About You', and 'Don't Cry', which would all later be officially released, as well as covers including 'Heartbreak Hotel'. These songs had also recently been recorded for the band's first demo tape [see previous chapter].

Tracii would suggest the band had sold about 80 tickets for the first show while Raz Cue would suggest 150, which was pretty good for a weeknight at the Troubadour, and the audience likely consisted of many friends of the band who were eager to hear what this new band would sound like:

You know, I think the first show we actually sold like 80 tickets, you know -- which was like really big, you know, back then. You know, to be able to pull 80 people at The Troubadour […]

Spin, July 1999

Cue would reminisce over the show and mention that the marquee at The Troubadour still listed the band as "L.A. Guns":

We all met up at the Troubadour around three in the afternoon for a first-ever Guns N' Roses' sound check, but the marquee said "L.A. Guns." A weeknight meant tables and chairs were set up in the showroom. Robbie and the crew had most of the gear set up by the time the rest of the band began straggling in, but I can't remember if I smoked pot with the crew.

One of the cool things about a band's debut show, whether they never play another gig or blow up hotter than Nagasaki, is that first crowd is loaded with friends there to support their friend(s). Before the show, Izzy, Axl, Duff, Tracii, and Robbie spent varying amounts of time in the showroom, having cocktails while chatting and personally thanking folks for coming. The guys were likely as excited to hit the stage, or possibly even more, than the crowd there was to discover what Guns N' Roses were all about. I for one was super excited, because I knew those folks were in for a treat. About an hour prior to their set, G N' R departed for the dressing room to read scripture while enjoying some tasty milk and cookies. Wait, that's Stryper. I have no idea what they did, because there were stairs between me and the Troub's dressing rooms.

Most weeknights local bands typically played to a few haggard chicks, their crew, and tables. But the show had a decent-sized crowd, not huge, but slightly larger than the L.A. Guns' gig a few months earlier. A hundred fifty fans, give or take. There were several folks who I recognized as L.A. Guns regulars, a bunch of teeny boppers whose two drink tickets were mostly used for soft drinks. But there were also scores of older folks, more punk-looking and often lined up three deep at the showroom bar. Then when their beloved liquor got served, they stuffed tip jars in hopes Ms. Barkeep would keep hooking them up.

Then it all began. The showroom light dimmed. An array of colored lights cut through a nicotine haze to paint the stage in hot hues. From stage left, the guys descended the stairway onto the stage. Robbie got busy fine-tuning his drums' positions as Izzy, Duff, and Tracii plugged in, tuned up, switched their amps off of standby, twisted some knobs, and then gestured to one another. Good to go.

The house music faded away as the voice of God announced the band from on high. Izzy stuck his smoke near the head of his ax and motioned to count it out. Without a hint of hesitation, Robbie raised drum sticks high above his head and "Click-click-click-click." One, two, three, four, the band threw a sonic punch into the crowds' face as Axl, decked out in chaps and g-string, bounded down the stairs to burst onto that stage as if shot from a howitzer. Having only been unleashed before a crowd once in the previous five months, Axl set his pent-up dervish free with a spontaneous and fresh kinetic overload that saw him trying his damndest to stomp a hole through the Troubadour's stage straight to China.

The guys' image was more glam than later images, like the 70s glam of Aerosmith, T-Rex, Sweet, or Bowie. And not like their contemporary scene's spandex-clad trannys playing loosely inspired Val Halen or Crüe. Axl didn't offer much commentary between tunes. The band merely delivered a few blistering songs in a row, then, after a short pause to allow folks to wipe the blood from their ears, he'd let the audience know what was next. When G N' R were ready to play "Nice Boys," he dedicated it to Poison with the same mocking disdain as during L.A. Guns gigs. Although Poison was pulling huge crowds into the clubs, Axl routinely made it crystal clear he didn't like Poison or consider what they played rock 'n' roll.

Over the next five years, I saw G N' R perform or rehearse at least a hundred times, and probably far more than that. Combine all those gigs with my love for booze, pot, and various other mind-altering cash killers, and I would be guessing about what else was on that night's set list. It's safe to say, "Jumpin' Jack Flash," Heartbreak Hotel," "Shadow of Your Love," and for sure "Think About You," "Move to the City," "Don't Cry" and "Anything Goes."

The last time I had seen Izzy and Axl together on stage was in Rose, a super frenetic band that constantly hopped and bopped while bouncing off of one another. Axl was still the incredibly dynamic bundle of energy, drawing lots of attention up front, but Izzy settled into a far more laid-back groove, absorbed in song while seemingly as one with the timbre, rhythm, and melody. It was my first time watching Duff on stage, but I really dug his bass tone, smooth chops, and in-your-face energy. Tracii was Tracii, a very entertaining showman and talented shredder with a great guitar sound. Robbie remained solid and right on time, neither boring nor flashy [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 200-202].

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 200-202

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:30 am

THE MUSIC SCENE OF HOLLYWOOD IN THE EIGHTIES

The music scene of Hollywood in the 80s was vibrant and much more alive than it is today - it was a reason why Duff, Axl and Izzy moved to Los Angeles to make it as musicians. It had well established bands like Van Halen, The Beach Boys and Motley Crue but maybe even more important: it had many concert venues, promoters, and record labels just waiting to host or manage the next big thing in music. It was the place to be to succeed, but this also brought thousands of aspiring musicians to the city; musicians who fought over space to hang their posters, fought over attention from the A&R reps, fought over coveted places on the weeknight bills at the biggest clubs, in various and often-changing bands and constellations.

Back in the 1970s, a punk movement had arisen in Hollywood (as a mirror to the punk movement on the East Coast) and in the 80s parts of it was slowly transforming into a hard rock scene - or reacting to it and becoming a more vapid glam rock scene.

Hollywood, in that day-- I mean, Guns N' Roses probably came on the scene, I'd assume, around like '85 -- There was a very small contingent of people who thought bands like The New York Dolls, and even like The Clash, and Hanoi Rocks, and things like that, were cool. So those kinda people just kinda like, you know, knew each other. So that's how I ran into Izzy. It's like, you know, we all just kinda liked the same kinda music..

Spin, July 1999

It always felt like a good place to be. I'd say from 1985-1990, I don't remember a greater time period for music as far as the scene that I'm in. The camaraderie that went along with the drama... the women, drugs, everything rock 'n roll is supposed to be. Our scene kind of came out of the whole, like reading interviews of Van Halen and Motley Crue, and all the bull shit that those guys said. And all the chicks were at those same interviews so they were willing to do all the things that they did. You know, the reason why there was no more scene is everybody got signed. They had to do records and the tours, so the whole scene disappeared. But it was the best time of my life, and to be associated with it now, even with the stigma that's attached to it from a bunch of other bands that kind of ruined it for one reason or another, I'm not sure exactly how it happened, it's great.

Mainstream Rock, April 2004

There were thousands of bands from all over the world trying to make it there on the Sunset Strip. 'Cause that's what you had to do. It was crazy. [...] it was tough. None of us had jobs, we were constantly having to find a place to sleep and something to eat. But you had nothing to lose. Everyone was going for it.

Richmond.com, September 16, 2004

What happened was that because there was so much music happening here, there were a lot of venues and they were in all sorts of places. There were places to play in the Valley but then in Hollywood just off Sunset Boulevard there were a number of places. What you would do when you go out in the evening, you go to one place and see a band and then you move on to the next one that was really close. It was like bar hopping! But there were numerous bands in every place so you would go down to The Troubadour and then up to The Whisky and then The Roxy. It was great and people went out just to go out. Not even to go to a club, but to hang out at the Rainbow parking lot.

MetalShrine, November 19, 2004

I saw Ratt before they made it and I saw WASP and…I mean…they´re not the biggest bands in the world, but still. Motley Crue was around. You could go see them in a club and later in the early nineties you had Warrant and those bands, but it was the same idea. A bunch of shows and a lot of girls hanging around. That´s just what you did at night. Now it's not like that. Now you have to make a special trip to go see some band and afterwards everybody leaves. Back then you'd get all dressed up and you could show up at a club and not even know who was playing, but you spent two hours getting ready.

MetalShrine, November 19, 2004

In the 1980's, the Sunset Strip was a thriving, micro-music eco-system, teaming with glam, sleaze and punk rockers; all attempting to bait an audience, land a deal and enjoy the bounty with bacchanalian delight like their rock n' roll predecessors. […] Although club owners could always bank on a thirsty crowd for Friday and Saturday nights, they lost money during the week. Therefore, Pay-to-Play was introduced in the 1980's: an insurance policy to cover the costs of operation during down time. It required that bands slotted to play during weeknights collect a minimum cover fee by pre-selling tickets to their own gigs. […] If the band caused trouble, however, and cost the [club] owners more than they brought in, getting blacklisted was almost guaranteed. This could be achieved by trashing dressing rooms, bar fighting and assaulting patrons. If a band was banned from enough clubs, they could kiss their dream of a record contract goodbye.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

When we were in high school, bands were mainly formed by friends. There was always a drummer, because there were no lack of parents who were stupid enough to buy drum sets for their kids, The garage would end up being the rehearsal room for many budding young bands. Then there was the singer; the charismatic, cool kid. Mostly they couldn't sing for shit, but sometimes a great singer actually emerged. Then there was me, and what seemed like a million guitar players, all practicing their Jimmy Page, Eddie Van Halen or Jimi Hendrix solos. Two or three guitar players would hook up and the least talented one would be urged by the others to play bass. The band was formed, except for the name. Bands broke up before playing one gig because no one could agree on a name.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

Launching a successful rock group in the early eighties required three ingredients: a dream, some talent, and die-hard ambition. The origins of Guns N' Roses can be traced to a handful of friend with similar taste in music, clothing, girls and drugs, and a collective fantasy to be the next Aerosmith, Zeppelin or Stones. Bands made their initial mark by clearing a garage, jamming cover tunes and playing underage parties. The real dream, however, required talent and skill that matched ambition, and players not up to par had to go. It wasn't personal; it was business.

For those who remained, a front-man and a few original songs were required to break out of high school keg parties and climb the Hollywood club food chain. Promiscuity ruled, as members of one band played sessions with others; everyone trying to find the right combination that could take over the Sunset Strip and land the coveted record deal. Band loyalty was achieved by growing a fan base or through the impenetrable bonds that formed while living subsistence lives together in L.A..

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

So many of the kids who were into the Sunset Strip music scene and trying to start a band were not from California. They moved here and they didn't have a background on each other and there were so many of tese hard rock, hair metal bands to select from in the early eighties. If they were sporting the same T-shirts or the same kind of stud jacket, Conch belts and service clothes, they found a way to get together. The camaraderie began with a shared interest in the genre of music that they liked and the time they spent together hanging out on the Sunset Strip and at shows. But when personality conflicts arose, off they went to start or join the next band.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

There was both an art and a hustle to promoting a club gig, especially when it came to flyering. Slash and Axl would cruise the Sunset Strip, tacking flyers up on every telephone pole an covering up their rival's flyers in the process. They gave out tickets like candy on the street to anyone who crossed their path in an attempt to raise the minimum amount to play. When they fell short, friends of the band (like Marc Canter) often stood outside the clubs on the night of the show and sold tickets one-by-one. When that failed, someone had to pony up the remaining amount or the band didn't go on. If you wanted the dream, these are the clubs you had to play.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

All the bands were coming to Hollywood. It was like the promised land, because so many bands were getting signed out of this area. People were trying each other on like wet suits in those band days. It was like, a guy would be in a band for, like, two weeks and then he’d be moving on to the next band.

A&E Biography, November 29, 2007

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 am

APRIL 1985

THE NEXT SHOWS

In April 1985 the fledgling band played four shows in Los Angeles: April 11 at Radio City, April 24 at the Troubadour, April 25 at the Dancing Waters Club, and April 27 at the Timber's Ballroom.

You know, I think the first show we actually sold like 80 tickets, you know -- which was like really big, you know, back then. You know, to be able to pull 80 people at The Troubadour -- or like, you know, this place called Radio City in Orange County, or any of those places -- was like really good. And then, you know, we just kept doing the thing -- you know, doing shows here and there.

Spin Magazine, 1999

1331 South Pacific Avenue; formerly Dancing Waters

Duff would remember the April 24 gig at the Troubadour and seem to have a somewhat different recollection than Tracii on the sizes of the audiences:

There were three people there, and one of them was our friend, and one was one of our girlfriends, and the other was the girlfriend’s friend. But we believed in ourselves from the first chord we played together.

Guitars, groupies and lots and lots of hair, The New York Times, July 2012

This also fits with Raz Cue's recollection that the very first show had drawn a larger audience because it consisted of supportive friends and people who wanted to hear what the new band would sound like.

As can be seen from the advertisement in L.A. Weekly below, Guns N' Roses were playing in the middle of the bill (and the magazine had still not settled on a way -- or the correct way -- to write "Guns N' Roses"):

Ad in L.A. Weekly, April 19, 1985

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 am

SONG: THINK ABOUT YOU

Album:
Appetite for Destruction, 1987, track no. 8.

Written by:
Lyrics: Izzy Stradlin.
Music: Izzy Stradlin.

Musicians:
Vocals: Axl Rose; lead guitar: Slash; rhythm guitar: Izzy Stradlin; bass: Duff McKagan; drums: Steven Adler.

Live performances:
One of the earliest Guns N' Roses songs. It might date back to Hollywood Rose, but more likely it was written by Izzy after he left Hollywood Rose (June 1984) and before the first Guns N' Roses show (March 26, 1985). Quite likely, it was debuted at one of the earliest Guns N' Roses shows, but unfortunately the setlists for these shows are missing. We know it was played on the first show with the classical lineup, on June 6, 1985. It was played heavily during 1985 and 1986 but only played twice in 1987 and not played in 1988 to 1993. It again found its way to the set-lists in 2001 and 2006, when Izzy joined the band again, but has not been played since 2006. In total it has, as of {UPDATEDATE}, at least been played {THINKABOUTYOUSONGS} times.

Lyrics:

Say baby you been lookin' real good
I remember when we met
Funny how I never felt so good
It's a feelin' that I know
I know I'll never forget

Ooh it was the best time I can remember
Ooh and the love we shared
Is lovin' that'll last forever

There wasn't much in this heart of mine
There was a little left and babe you found it
It's funny how I never felt so high
It's a feelin' that I know
I know I'll never forget

Ooh it was the best time I can remember
Ooh and the love we shared
Is lovin' that'll last forever

I think about you
Honey all the time my heart says yes
I think about you
Deep inside I love you best
I think about you
You know you're the one I want
I think about you
Darlin' you're the only one
I think about you

Somethin' changed in this heart of mine
An' I'm so glad that ya showed me
Funny how I never felt so high
It's a feelin' that I know
I know I'll never forget

Ooh it was the best time I can remember
Ooh and the love we shared
Is lovin' that'll last forever

I think about you
Honey all the time my heart says yes
I think about you
Deep inside I love you best
I think about you
You know you're the one I want
I think about you
Darlin' you're the only one
I think about you

Quotes regarding the song and its making:

Writing the song:

'Think About You' was cut and dry when I brought it in. Even if you write a song completely, when you bring it in it always ends up a little different when you record it.

Guitar For The Practising Musician, September 1988

Of the songs on the record, "Think About You" lzzy wrote before Guns N' Roses was even a nightmare.

Guitar For The Practising Musician, September 1988

[...] Izzy wrote the words to a song called Think About You [...].

Tales of Destruction Audio Interview, 1988

Izzy wrote that one. There's a few parts of the lyrics that I put in there, and maybe gave it a little more flow, and worded it my way since I was the one singing it. Izzy does a lot of lyric writing.[/i] (...) [i]I think it's kinda one of the ones that's a bit hidden. That's also with the way it was recorded. It's also very Hanoi Rocks-influenced, and the production on "Think About You" and the way it's done, is kinda like a tribute to all those old Hanoi Rocks records. It's something that Izzy was really into, and then he got me into it. It's kinda like a Hanoi Rocks song the way we looked at that.

Rock Scene, June 1988

It's a fast lovesong about drugs, sex, Hollywood and money.

Hit Parader, March 1988

Izzy wrote nine-tenths [of the lyrics] of 'Mr. Brownstone' and nine-tenths of 'Think About You.' I changed a couple of words here and there that fit better.

Screamer, August 1988

Izzy and Axl already had some songs [when I entered the band], and the other guys knew them: "Think About You," "Anything Goes," "Move To The City," "Shadow of Your Love," and "Don't Cry." And we did sped-up punk versions of the Stones' "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel".

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 59

[Nicky Beat] had a rehearsal studio in his house in Silverlake where we'd go [after the Hell tour], set up our gear, and jam, and that is where the whole band really came together. Izzy had something called 'Think About You' that we liked, and we revisited 'Don't Cry,' which was the first song I'd ever worked on with Izzy.

Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York

Recording the song:

The only song [the recording] took a long time was, uh [forgetting the song title] that, "dah-dah-dada-dah-bam-bam" [humming the drum intro]. The simplest song of the record! The first take we did I thought was great, but they didn't like it. We played it, like, 50 times! [Duff protesting] It was like 8 times!

Interview with Steven and Duff, December 1988

Talking about the song:

I always had a hard time with 'Think About You.' It was one of the songs that Izzy wrote that was very indicative of the sort of Hanoi Rocks thing that was going on at the time. I never really got off on playing it all that much.

Classic Rock Magazine, July 2007

That's a song that Izzy had in its entirety when we first started. I was never a big fan of it because it was just too lightweight. But at the same time, it was one of those songs where Izzy had written the lyrics, so it was sort of like that Aerosmith song "Combination" [on Rocks], which Joe Perry wrote. It was Izzy's babbling "Combination" song. I enjoyed recording it, though, I managed to get some ideas down and could walk away feeling satisfied with the way the song sounded.

Guitar Edge Magazine, March 2007

Think About You is a lot of fun, real punk rock and more of the kind of spirit that I grew up with.

Music Radar, June 11, 2016

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:33 am

DUFF CONSIDERS QUITTING

As mentioned before, Duff was not happy with the band already from the beginning:

After [Road Crew] I got together with Axl and Izzy; they had a band and they said, can you come and play bass for us? It was already called Guns N’ Roses, but there was another guy on guitar called Tracii [Guns] and a different drummer [Rob Gardener], and it was a real iffy band. Like, I would hardly show up for rehearsal, and that is not like me. I am always the first guy to show up at rehearsal, the first guy to do everything like that.

Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from January 1990

And things were not working out for Duff as the band continued playing its first shows:

After we'd played the Dancing Waters club and another gig so forgettable I can't remember the name of the venue, any excitement I had for the band dwindled. I missed the next rehearsal.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 59

Duff and Izzy
Unknown date

In early 1990 he would recall that his initial thoughts on Axl was, "He is good, but I don't know" but that this might have been due to Tracii and Rob being in the band [Kerrang! March 1990].

Marc Canter would seem to suggest Duff's real problem was with Tracii:

And right about then, Duff was kind of feeling, "I might have to head out of here, I don't know, Tracii, it's just not...It's good, but it's not exactly what I want, but I'll stick around until I find something better."

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

With Duff starting to lose interest and skipping a rehearsal, Axl called him up and insisted that he had to be part of the band and to give it another chance [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 59].

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:34 am

MAY 1985

TRACII AND ROB QUIT THE BAND

Tracii and Rob said, "We're not going to Seattle. Where are we gonna sleep?"

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

_______________________________

In May, the band played two shows, at Radio City (May 11, 1985) and at Joshua's Parlour (May 12, 1985). The band probably played no other shows in May 1985 and it is likely that this is due to the band starting to fall apart.

According to Raz, Tracii and Rob weren't as driven as Izzy, Axl and Duff:

Izzy, Axl, and Duff each had their own business instincts, ideas, and connections. But no one ever cared what a drummer has to say. And Tracii was still in baby-rock-star mode, more than content to have others worry about band stuff.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 204

It is also possible that Duff's qualms regarding the band [see previous chapter] resulted in less shows.

DUFF PLANS A TOUR UP NORTH, ROB AND TRACII DON'T WANT TO GO

Duff was eager to travel to his hometown of Seattle to play shows in the region that he was so familiar with from his previous bands and played a mini tour of the north West Coast. The resulting tour would later be referred to as the "Hell Tour" [for more information on this tour, see later chapter]. But Tracii and Rob were reluctant to do the trip. Tracii and Rob were from Los Angeles and Duff didn't see the same hunger in them to make it, compared to the rest of the band members who had moved to Los Angeles and would do anything to succeed [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 59].

Anyway, I planned a fuckin’ tour for us. Cos I'd played in punk rock groups all over the country, in punk rock clubs. So I booked us this tour - just up and down the west coast. But Rob and Tracii suddenly chickened out, like, three days before the thing was due to start. Like, “Oh, we don’t know if we wanna do it..." I was like, fuck you!

Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from January 1990

Rob and Tracii were skeptical about the idea [the Hell tour] from the start. I guess they weren't sure whether to take the leap of faith necessary to leave home with nothing but your bandmates and wits to depend on. And just a few weeks before we were to leave, they broke the news: they weren't up for a no-budget trip. Not knowing where we would sleep each night was too much for them. I assured them we'd find places to crash, and anyway, what did it matter - we would be on tour, a concept that to me was pure magic. It didn't matter. First Rob and then Tracii backed out.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 61

Izzy and Axl and I were just like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's go on the road. Let's do this thing." Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner were more concerned with where they were going to stay or how we were going to get there. They got cold feet at the eleventh hour for doing a tour of the Northwest. Izzy, Axl and I just didn't care.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

They were saying, “We have these shows booked…” But we didn’t have a reliable source of transportation and I was like, “Ah, it’s kinda crazy to do it…” We had some junky old van, and I was worried it was gonna break down, which it did. They had to hitchhike back and everything. So I just made a decision that I didn’t wanna go, and I ended up leaving the band. And I think Tracii was right behind me.

[/url]Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Right around that time Duff had booked a tour in Seattle and Rob, the drummer and Tracii both quit because they didn’t wanna do the tour, they didn’t understand how they could do it or the living arrangements or something. They didn’t see a clear, stable plan for the tour. They both came from fairly stable homes and environments and just weren’t THAT committed to the concept so they just left but Axl and Izzy didn’t care, they were used to living on the streets or anywhere they could in order to make it.

Legendary Rock Interviews, April 22, 2012

It is possible one of the reasons Duff wanted to do this trip, in addition to playing shows closer to his home and at clubs he had played before with his previous bands, was to get Rob and Tracii more involved in the band. A tour is a great way to either make or break a band. Duff could have thought about this is a lakmus test - now they had to commit or leave. As it happened, they quit.

Marc Canter would describe the differences between Tracii and Rob and Axl, Duff and Izzy:

You know, these people, Rob and Tracii, came from homes in the neighborhood and Axl and Izzy had left their home to live on the streets or live in people's cars or do whatever they can to make it in rock'n'roll. So they were dead serious, and so was Duff. Tracii was serious about music, but not serious enough to do what it takes to make it.

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

WHO LEFT FIRST?

It is unclear who left first of Rob and Tracii. That Rob left the band before Tracii is supported by an article in Cream 1989 where Axl stated that Steven and Duff joined the band before Slash. In other words, that Rob was gone before Tracii. Tracii would confirm that Rob left first in a later interview:

Then the next thing that happened was Rob left.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

It is likely that Tracii would remember who left first of the two of them. That Rob left first is also supported by Steven [see quote below]. Still, Raz Cue and Slash would say Tracii left first [see quotes below].

WHY ROB LEFT - PROBLEMS WITH BAND MATES?

Rob would explain why he left the band and imply that he had problems with one or more of his band mates:

There was a lot of stuff going on. We were young, hormones were flying, there was drugs and everything else. But I’m not going to go into a lot of specifics. I don’t feel I really need to. I’m not here to trash anyone.

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Cue would imply it was a much bigger hit to the band that Rob left than Tracii leaving, and also confirm that Rob had a problem with some of the guys in the band:

A day after Tracii got ousted, Robbie quit the band. We were all floored. No one had even contemplated Robbie abandoning the project. Izzy and Axl tried to change his mind. When that didn't bear fruit, they asked me to have a talk with Robbie and let him know they really wanted him in the band. At the very least, see if he'd stay until they found another drummer. When I called Robbie to see where his head was at and tell him he was missing a great opportunity, before I even got my whole pitch delivered, he gave me a dismissive "I'm not going to play with those guys." [...]

The guys were pissed at Robbie for leaving them hanging, so Izzy taught me an awesome trick, which I employed relentlessly over the next decade - a free ad got placed in the Recycler, something like: "Gay Drummer Available. Into Duran Duran, Flock of Seagulls, Pet Shop Boys, Haircut One Hundred...Call Robbie before 6 a.m.," and listed Robbie's number. Classic!

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 208-209

Rob Gardner couldn't cut it; he was scared to go. I called Steven. He came down and we had one day of rehearsal. It really was like a synergy. It was like we'd been playing together for years.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

WHY TRACII LEFT - MUSICAL DISAGREEMENT WITH AXL OR "THE MICHELLE INCIDENT"?

In addition to Tracii and Rob not wanting to go on the tour to Seattle, Marc Canter would indicate there was also some disagreement about a song they were working on at the time:

So they got in an argument also about possibly a song they were working on. Maybe that [was] part of the argument and either Axl fired Tracii or Tracii quit, or both. Ok, that's basically it. "Fuck you, I quit," "No, fuck you, you're fired." One of those things.

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

Raz Cue would support that Axl and Tracii butted heads over musical differences, like they had done previously in LA Guns. Cue also claims that Tracii was fired before Rob:

Initially, only three of Tracii's tunes even made it into rehearsal, and at shows he was lucky if the guys even played one of them. Five shows in, and it was all Izzy and Axl's songs, plus some covers. Instead of taking it as a challenge, Tracii acted perpetually petulant. The morning after G N' R played the Timbers gig [April 27], Axl was in an extremely foul mood. More specifically, he was thoroughly pissed off at Tracii, who the night before reportedly remained out of sight behind his Marshall stacks the entire show, all the while playing way too loud and purposely fucking up songs.

Axl went on and on griping, and I began to get the impression he sought my okay to get rid of Tracii, so I said, "Fuck Tracii. Fire him if you want. [...]

Izzy and Axl agreed Tracii would get the boot from Guns N' Roses after their next show, the second week of May, giving them a month to find a replacement.[...]

The next afternoon, Tracii called me to tell me about Axl firing him from G N' R. Tracii didn't seem at all upset, mostly just talked shit about the guys.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 208-209

[In 1985] I just wanted to get away for a week or something, and I recall Axl or Izzy calling and leaving a message-"We got rehearsal this week." I just ignored it. I didn't hear anything for a couple of days and then finally the whip came down-"Slash is going to play guitar because you haven't come to rehearsal.

Spin, July 1999

Tracii would say he quit the band due to having had an argument with Axl over the girl Michelle Young [more on Young in a later chapter] and from being annoyed by Axl's stage antics:

And then, all of a sudden, I noticed that Axl was like talking a lot in between songs. You know like we'd play, and then he'd talk to the crowd for like five minutes in between a couple of songs. And that kind of evolved to the point where me and Izzy, you know, really provided a lot of direction, and, you know trying to like keep this thing right, and just rock'n'roll, and just fun, you know? And he was like: No, the people need to -- you know, they like it, you know? So like: Okay -- whatever, you know? But it kept getting worse and worse and worse. And then he started hanging out with Michelle Young, And that's what that song "My Michelle"'s about, is about this girl. The two last shows that I did, we do sound check, and Axl shows up kinda late -- and he flips out. He's like: Tracii, motherfucker. You know, Michelle -- you know, Michelle Young's name isn't on the guest list. I'm like: Oh, well, I put it on there. And I did, you know? I was just like: What's this guy's trip? But he really, you know, fucked up the gig for me, 'cause I was like not into it. You know, I was like: Oh, this sucks. You know, this guy's all pissed off, and now he's dictating to the 150 people that are here, you know.

Spin Magazine, 1999

But I also think - which is one of the reasons I left Guns 'N Roses in the first place - once we started having this very minor success here in L.A., Izzy and I were running into problems with him. His extended speeches on stage, this newfound power . . . the power of his voice to communicate how he felt about situations on stage. At that time we were allotted an hour; you know, you go up there, you've got an hour to play your songs and then get the hell off the stage. The first show we did ten songs, a couple of shows we did nine songs, and then the last few shows I did, we were literally playing five or six songs and then letting Axl just stand there and talk, and tell everybody what he thought. Which is great, but for me personally, I wasn't playing music to support any cause, or any local clothes maker or whatever.

Classic Hard Rock Examiner, 2011

And then I lasted for about seven or eight months in that, and then Axl and I got into an extraordinary fight - and we had never argued ever in the past few years before. [Then] I just kind of went my own way. [...] That fight [with Axl] stemmed from a girl named Michelle Young [of 'My Michelle' fame] not being put on a guest list at three in the afternoon before even sound check, and we did two shows after that argument and then I left. It just wasn't fun anymore. I was probably 19 then and I thought Great band, and I love these guys, but they're not worth the headaches.' Even at that age I didn't want to deal with it.

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

Then Axl (Rose) was getting real... talking out of his ass on stage and I didn't like it. You know, we'd play a song for 5 minutes and he'd talk for 10 minutes. He's a great singer, but what it boils down to is that it just got too weird for me... and the band.

Mainstream Rock, April 2004

What happened was, Guns N’ Roses were playing the Dancing Waters in San Pedro. And Izzy had called me and said, “Hey, if you get down there before I do make sure you put Axl’s friend Michelle on the guest list.” “Yeah, whatever, cool.” So we get down there, and Izzy’s there already, and Axl actually got down there early, too. And he starts unloading on me and Izzy, “Why isn’t Michelle on the guest list?” He was just in a really bad mood and it kind of ruined the show for Izzy and I that night. But, you know, Izzy had a way of being very passive about those kinds of things. But I was just like, “This sucks. This is making me really unhappy.” Then a few days later we played the Timbers club in Glendora, and that was the first time Axl was late to a show, and it was just waiting around, waiting around, waiting around.

So between then and our next rehearsal, which was on a Thursday, I had a lot of time to think, and I don’t know, I just smelled trouble. I could see a very negative thing about to happen, and I didn’t want to be involved in whatever that feeling was. Then on Thursday night I blew off rehearsal and I get a call from Izzy. “Dude, where were you?” I’m like, “Oh man, you know, the brakes on my Volkswagen, I need to get them fixed…” Some bullshit excuse. Then, finally, after like three or four days, Izzy and Axl called and Axl was flipping the fuck out, like, “What are you doing? What’s your problem?” And I’m like, “Hey, you know … this. The way you’re talking to me right now. I’m not into this.”

So we’re going back and forth and finally he goes, “Well, I’m just gonna call Slash.” And I’m like, “That’s a great idea!” You know, it’ll be a perfect band. You guys can do what you wanna do and then you don’t have the other chef in the kitchen. So I go, “I’ll do my thing, don’t worry about me.” And they didn’t. And they went and sold like fifty million records or something!

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Tracii would also claim it hadn't been fun playing in the band in those days:

That was the one thing, when I was playing with the guys in GNR it wasn't that much fun. It was more like one drama after another, and it still is. It just wasn't something I was prepared for. Like I'm 19 years old and I'm trying to play the guitar, hang out with fun people [...]

Mainstream Rock, April 2004

It just wasn't fun. When you're a teenager the last thing I was interested in was this really ... Axl was very volatile all of a sudden. [...] I lived with him for two years before that happened [=that he became volatile] and he wasn't. So it was a real shock and I was the first one to run away from him. I guess I should have hung around for an extra year.

Blabbermouth, October 10, 2005from North Shore Sunday

Later, Tracii would say he left for "the same reason Izzy left" [Kerrang! May 23, 1992], which likely pointed to Axl being difficult to be in a band with.

Slash would comment on this:

Tracii had a falling out with Axel [sic], which is typical, because everybody has a falling out with Axel [sic] at some point or another. But he also played the wrong kind of guitar for the kind of band it was.

Scene Magazine, April 1988

So in May 1985, the fledgling band had lost two of its members, the lead guitarist and the drummer.

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:34 am

TRACII LOOKS BACK AT HIS
SHORT TENURE IN THE BAND

Looking back, Tracii would be magnanimous about being replaced by Slash:

I thought Slash was much better for that band than I was. You know, I thought that like: Wow -- you know, this guy's really got a creepy image, you know. But different than a, you know, white guy with black leather on. You know, it was like a creepy dude, you know? He's like really cool-looking, played really cool -- one style, all the time -- and, you know, just like a real like Joe Perry type guy, you know? And that was -- pretty much, it had to be Axl's decision.

Spin Magazine, Outtakes for Axl Rose issue, 1999

[Talking about leaving the band and Slash taking his place]: I figured that would be the obvious choice. He had played with everybody in the band except Duff. He was one of my closest friends, and had actually come up with the original GNR logo before he was in the band. He was a real fan of Guns N’ Roses. I think that having him see the band from the audience, made him appreciate it more. As soon as he was in the band, I really started enjoying the band more. I think it worked out the best for everybody. I really do.

Tales From The Stage, February 2013

With Tracii being part of the band for such a short time that resulted in no official releases, it is natural to question what influence he had on the band. In 2004 he was asked how much input he had on the band:

I had 100% input because it was my band. Until the point where I left, everything came down to pretty much me and Izzy (Stradlin).

Mainstream Rock, April 2004

Tracii would look back at having worked with Axl:

I've seen Axl once -- I saw him in a liquor store -- and that was about seven or eight years ago. He was like: Hey, man -- what's up? We gotta talk, you know? I go: All right. And then Doug Goldstein called my house once, and I called back, but I never got an answer back -- so I don't know what that was all about.

I'll tell you the one thing about Axl that was always really cool, man -- he was really loyal, till he's not loyal anymore. If that makes any sense. He'll kill for you, until he decides not to. And then, once he decides not to, then that's it.

[…]

He's not really someone ... if you're not on the payroll you should be scared of, heh ... you know. I think he basically means well -- I think he really does, you know?. You know, he wants everybody to like him for him.

Kerrang! May 23, 1992

Axl and Tracii at Radio City
April 11, 1985

When Guns N' Roses blew up, Tracii would later express bitterness over the band being referred to as the "Gunners":

It pisses me off, I gotta say. It makes me so mad. […] Not only does that make me mad, it makes me mad that they didn’t change the name of the f**kin’ band when I split! […] It was Izzy, who was my best friend, that said, ‘No, we’re not going to change it’. I was like, ‘Why the f**k not? We’re selling out the Whiskey right now but we’re not that big. We can sell 500 tickets, so what?' In LA we’d only been playing for a year. I honestly didn't think they were going to use the name. Then they kept it and it really didn’t bother me because I didn’t think that things would happen... Then once they got really big I still never thought about it. But now, like the last two years it’s really pissed me off. They’re referred to under that name.

Kerrang! May 23, 1992

Especially the focus on music that was written when Tracii was still in the band would irk him:

I wanted to and I was ready to burn LA down -just like everybody else is doing right now. I was so pissed off. Everything on the first record I had done but that made sense: they got a deal, they didn't write any new songs except ‘Sweet Child O’ Mine’ after I left... But I dug the record. It was like, ‘Wow, it's a f**kin’ cool record. I wish I was playing on it...'.

Then they put ‘Don’t Cry’ out which was like four or five years after the fact and... Be cool, be cool to me. I never did nothing wrong to those guys. Sure, Axl will say all day long, ‘Ah, Tracii’s a dick, he left right in the middle', but I never said a bad word about those guys, never asked for nothing and they never offered me nothing so it kinda pisses me off [uneasy chuckling].

Give me five bucks, man, it's my name! Buy me a cheese burger! [chuckles].

Kerrang! May 23, 1992

In 2007, Tracii would again talk about Guns N' Roses and Axl:

If I had stayed with Axl [Rose], I don't know if Guns N' Roses would have been any better or worse but I think it would have been a very different band. We would have had a bit more fire. But the key to that band's success was Axl because at that time his singing really connected with people on a social level. [...]

I haven't spoken to Axl since 1988, but we still have a lot of mutual friends. I don't wish him ill, but it's hard because he never stops saying bad things about me. He was on my MySpace page doing that very recently. [...]

Axl's problem is that if people don't support him 100 percent in what he's doing, he just doesn't want to know them any more. He's so talented but that talent comes from being a nervous wreck and some place in your head you need to be happy, which he isn't. [...]

If I'd stayed with Guns N' Roses for two more years I could have financed my rock and roll dreams — got Blackie Lawless to play bass, Nikki Sixx on drums and Robert Plant to sing — but at the same time we had a pretty good run with L.A. Guns, so I take the positives because I'm still touring Europe. But the problem with being on the road is that I do have a lot of time to think.

South Wales Echo (via Blabbermouth), January 19, 2007

Tracii would shortly after explain the MySpace comment:

I didn't say he posted on my MySpace. He was looking at old members MySpace pages with a mutual friend of mine and calling us " Shit on his shoe" . As you can see, I took the high road answering this question whereas I probably could have said a lot of other things and I chose not to.

Metal Sludge forum; September 2010

In 2008 and 2010, Tracii would be asked if he had contributed much to any of the songs that made the band famous:

I didnt bring anything on appetite in from scratch in fact I think 50 percent of those songs were hollywood rose songs.... I did play, Think about you, dont cry, move to the city, back off bitch, wreckless life, anything goes and maybe a few more live with with band and made some minor contributions during practice etc, but, I dont take any credit for writing any of those songs...... It was a great time and I want to remember it that way, At least AXL was really a true friend and never stole anything from me and the same with Izzy. That being said I did create the band with AXL and I have no regrets because the band really did make a diference and I am glad to be part of its history

Metal Sludge message board (via HTGTH), October 30, 2008

No, the reality of that is that anything from Appetite For Destruction and Use Your Illusion I didn't write from scratch. Anything that I was involved with for those songs was a combination of me, Izzy and Axl. But they consciously didn't use anything that I'd brought in from scratch because they didn't want to pay out; plus the stuff maybe didn't stick with what they wanted to do at that time. So I lay no claim to like 'Hey, I wrote 'Welcome To The Jungle' man, where's my money?' It's not like that.

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

In 2010, he bore no grudges:

I think I'm more proud of it than anything. I had the good time that I did with the band, and then when I got fed up I think I made the right decision to leave so I could continue to do my own thing and take the education I got from playing with those guys. And you know, it's never really been about money for me until now, because now I have a little son. So now I have to make money, but up until this point I never thought 'Oh, those guys must have gazillions of dollars and I only have thousands of dollars'. But erm... I'd love to have that money! But no, it's never been part of my depression, I have my own reasons for depression [laughs].

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

And as to having contact with his former band mates:

Oddly enough, the people I probably talk to the most are Gilby Clarke and Matt Sorum. Slash I talk to maybe every two or three years, Axl I haven't talked to since 1989, I'm very friendly with Duff (McKagan). But you know, everybody's kind of scattered.

The Quietus, June 16, 2010

by **Soulmonster** Sun May 31, 2020 9:35 am

JUNE 1985

SLASH AND STEVEN JOINS, FORMATION OF THE CLASSIC LINEUP

With Tracii being fired and Rob leaving the band [or possibly the other way around, see discussion previous chapter, a new lead guitarist and a new drummer was needed. According to Duff, Axl knew a couple of guys who could fill in: Slash and Steven Adler [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 61; Guitar for the Practising Musician, April 1992], which Axl knew from Hollywood Rose. Duff knew them too after having been the bassist in Slash's band Road Crew just weeks prior to joining Guns N' Roses [Kerrang! March 1989].

Izzy and Axl and I were just like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's go on the road. Let's do this thing [=the Hell Tour]." Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner were more concerned with where they were going to stay or how we were going to get there. They got cold feet at the eleventh hour for doing a tour of the Northwest. Izzy, Axl and I just didn't care. When they pulled out, we asked Slash and Steven to be in the band and the Troubadour was our first gig as a band.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

They [=Rob and Tracii] didn’t want to do the tour that was booked. And we called Slash and Steven.

A&E Biography, November 29, 2007

Then Tracii and I decided to bring Izzy into the band - and then we got Steve and Duff. And then Tracii wasn't into it because it wasn’t going quite the direction that he wanted to go. So he went his way and put L.A. Guns back together, and we brought in Slash. […] And when we put the band together the second time with Izzy, Duff and Steve […].

Creem Close-Up Metal, September 1989

I guess Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner didn't want to do these shows up north. So Slash calls me and says, "We have two empty shows you want to do them? One's at the Troubadour and we're going to go up to Oregon and Seattle for the others. And I said, "Fuck yeah, of course." The two other guys didn't have it in their hearts to do it ad we did.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

In 2008, Axl would say that he had wanted Slash in the band since it was founded:

I knew what I wanted when I knocked on Izzy's window. I also knew I wanted Slash but we still had differences and Izzy wasn't down with it.

mygnrforum.com, December 14, 2008

Slash had recently started playing in the band Black Sheep, so Axl, Izzy and Steven went to a Black Sheep concert on May 31, 1985, to convince Slash to join Guns N' Roses. A few days later he did [Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007]. This implies that Steven was already in the band, but other accounts [see previous chapter] would suggest Slash got in the band before Steven.

And it was at a Black Sheep gig that I started talking to Axl. He told me he had had a falling out with [then Guns N’ Roses guitarist] Tracii Guns and asked if I wanted to join the band. Izzy, of course, was already there, and so was Duff.

Guitar World, July 2007

So we got Slash and Steven in the band at the last minute, and it clicked. We had three days to rehearse and everybody was like, OK, we’ll give it a shot.

Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from January 1990

So Slash was playing with Black Sheep, and even though his heart wasn’t in it because they were a heavy metal band, he was capable of doing that gig. He played one show with them, at the Country Club, on May 31, 1985. And Izzy and Axl showed up. They were buzzing around and they said, “Hey, Tracii and Rob just left, we have a gig at the Troubadour next week, and then after that Duff has booked some gigs up north.” And Slash already knew Duff. So they all knew each other and Slash was like, “Yeah, I’m gonna do it.” I thought the best thing for his career would be to stay in Black Sheep because they were a bigger band. Plus there were no drug addicts in Black Sheep. But he quit Black Sheep and got Steven and they started playing with Guns N’ Roses.

Tom Beaujour and Richard Bienstock, Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion, 2021

Slash had just joined Black Sheep and was playing with them at the Country Club when the other guys came up to see him and persuaded him to quit. They were like, “we have a gig at the Troubadour and then we leave for a tour of the upper west coast are you in?” and he agreed. I had actually told him not to do it just because I thought it wouldn’t last, I mean I liked Axl and Izzy and what they were capable of but from what I saw every single band they formed fell apart for whatever reason. I just didn’t think it would last and at the time Black Sheep had a following and was a more stable band even if they were a little too metal for Slash.

Legendary Rock Interviews, April 22, 2012

And [Axl and Izzy] actually went to see Slash, who just had joined Black Sheep, a band that was playing at the Country Club. This was May 31st. They, Guns N' Roses, had a gig booked June 6 at The Troubadour. It was a Thursday night and then June 8th these gigs that were booked in Seattle. So they got two gigs a week away. No guitar player, no drummer. So they said, "Okay, perfect, we'll take Slash and Steven." But Slash had just joined Black Sheep and Paul Gilbert was in Black Sheep. Black Sheep was around and they had a contract and, you know, it was heavy metal. It wasn't really what Slash was used to, but he pulled it off, no problem, but it wasn't where his heart was at. [...] And then so Axl and Izzy and those guys showed up at that gig to try to persuade Slash to come join back with them and, you know, they got these gigs booked. I actually told Slash not to because I didn't think, I mean, I wanted him to do it, but I didn't think it would last. It was personality issues and all kinds of, you know, power, who's in charge and whatever. With the difference was, Slash didn't listen to me. He obviously joined the band

Let There Be Talk, August 29, 2013

Duff would also discuss why Slash wanted to join:

[About Slash joining the band in June 1985]: Slash was inclined to try [Guns N' Roses] because Guns seemed more where he wanted to go musically than Black Sheep [his current band at the time]. [...] Slash liked the idea of joining a band with the intention of making its own mark.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p 69

But the leader of Black Sheep, Willie Basse, was not as eager to see Slash join Guns N' Roses:

Guns N' Roses had a gig they were planning to get to in a station wagon to Seattle. I remember calling Slash's mom and saying, "You can't let him join the band. They're all a bunch of heroin addicts." I tried to get her to talk hm out of going. Slash told me that his mom didn't speak to him for a year after I called. I was trying to block it but it was fate. He left Black Sheep and joined Guns N' Roses.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

Axl would later explain some of the attraction he found in Slash's guitar playing:

Slash is one of the most emotional guitar players that I've ever met or ever seen. [...] It took 5 years to find somebody who played more from the heart rather than just trying to be the fastest or trying to be this or that to be a big rock star, someone who, like, he'd be really quiet [...] most of the time and really won't let a lot of himself out till he picks up a guitar and then his heart and soul seems to pour out through the guitar. I sit down a lot of times at shows, I sit down right at the stage right in front of him amp when he's doing a solo, because, to me, it means just so much to me to hear that.

MTV, May 14, 1988

[Slash] will be very quiet and stuff, most of time, and really won't let a lot of himself out until he picks up the guitar and then his heart and soul seems to pour out through the guitar.

MTV Documentary, November 4, 1989

BUT IZZY AND SLASH DON'T WANT TO PLAY TOGETHER

According to Raz and Axl's quote above, Axl was eager about getting Slash into the band while Izzy was reluctant:

Axl only had one guitarist in mind. But Izzy expressed a desire to explore all options, in hopes of finding an older, more established musician. Axl remained steadfast and eventually convinced Izzy to at least invite Slash over to talk music, and perhaps those two might play some guitar together. The day after that get-together, Axl happily reported of his plan's rousing success. Izzy was floored by Slash's talent, and a quick meeting turned into those two jamming through the practice amps in Izzy's living room for most of the day.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 210

According to Cue above, Izzy hadn't heard Slash play before, or hadn't played with him before. This is likely not correct since Slash had joined Hollywood Rose in 1984 for a week before Izzy quit to join the band London, and it is likely they rehearsed together then.

This reluctance from Izzy's side can be inferred from later interviews that Izzy did:

There's nothing more annoying than a guitarist just noodling. Shredding, it's horrid. It's the same thing when you try to get a band together, you always end up with these noodlers, y'know...[...] when I first met him, yeah. Slash was a noodler, man. I think he still is. Like in Guns N' Roses he would noodle but then the vocals would come back in and that would shut him up!

Total Guitar Magazine, August 2001

According to Izzy, the feeling went both ways:

I don't think [Slash] really wanted another guitar player, but it was kind of a package deal, Axl and I. We had periods where we actually wrote songs together and worked out our parts. There was a little bit more interplay on Appetite than Illusion. He was like a brother, but a brother who really wanted to be out on his own.

Musician, November 1992

Originally I don't think Slash ever wanted to play with another guitarist. But we both really loved Aerosmith and the Stones and we just used that idea to make it all work. My favourite band was always the Ramones - just four guys wailing with power chords. At some point he and I hooked up and we started making it work. It became fun, just working with another guy like him, opposites attract, I suppose (...) He's a great guitar player - he'll go, he's a guy if you let him go, he's just off, out there. You gotta reel him in now and then, but that's what he loves to do. Listen to the end of Paradise City, I'm just doing the power chords, G and D. And Slash just goes manic in the last four bars. It's incredible. Those were great times..

Total Guitar, 2001

And Slash would confirm this:

When we first met we didn't click musically at all. [...] If you listen to the record, me and lzzy don't play anything alike. Our sound is completely different. He doesn't play lead hardly at all, but his rhythm style is cool. I was a lot heavier than he was. But we worked it out and it wasn't even a conscious thing. We just played together and eventually got better and better and now we sort of jell more.

Guitar For The Practising Musician, September 1988

Axl would also talk about this:

The problem was that neither Slash nor Izzy wanted to play with another guitarist on stage. Slash used to have, and always has had, a fondness for f... goddamn booze, and he always managed to be dead drunk on the nights he had to play with someone else. Izzy also had his own ways of escaping the situation. Then, finally, Slash showed up at Izzy's house one day, they learned to play together and have been inseparable ever since.

Hard Magazine (France), February 1988

In 1995, after Izzy had left Guns N' Roses, Slash would continue to be dismissive of what Izzy had brought to the table:

I started out as a one-guitar guy but I ended up being involved with a two-guitar band because I was forced to work with Izzy. Actually Izzy and I have a real natural relationship – it wasn't pre-conceived at all. It just sort of fell into place and I did my thing and Izzy did his and somehow or another we complemented each other. It wasn't supposed to be a two-guitar approach – he was on his side and I was on my side and the end result was completely different guitar players that happened to mesh. There were songs I would have done differently, like 'Welcome To The Jungle'. I really wanted it to sound a certain way and when I listen to it now, I still cringe sometimes. Because I hear this "tink tinkatink tink tinkatink" (Izzy's part) and I just want to hear the riff. For some reason there was interaction but it wasn't conscious. […] So, because I had to work with Izzy, Guns is now a two-guitar band. Duff always goes, "What do we need another guitar player for?" and I go, "Well, because..."

Guitar, February 1995

But the only reason Guns had two guitars was because Izzy and Axl came as a package deal. (Eddie van Halen cackles.) I had a band called Road Crew and I couldn’t find a singer. Singers are the hardest thing to find.

Musician Magazine, March 1995

Gilby and I probably like each other a lot more than Izzy and I did. I think that's probably it. When Gilby and I write together, if there's a riff, I learn what he's playing and I make up another version of it. In a higher key or something. It's easy because there's no conflict of interest, no ego challenge. With Izzy, I would write stuff that was too complicated for him to play; or Izzy would write a song that was so easy for me to play it was boring. But Izzy's got a natural rock feel and people talk about, "Oh, there's Izzy and there's Keith." And I'm like, "There's Keith and then there's Izzy who could be Keith if he worked at it." They do have the same approach to guitar – open chords and a lot of rhythm. But at the same time Izzy doesn't have enough of a grasp of a guitar neck to make it sound as smooth and natural as Keith does.

Guitar, February 1995

But in his biography and in later interviews, Slash would again be more complimentary towards Izzy and his playing style:

I liked Izzy. He was, after all, the first guy I met and I enjoyed his style and admired his talent.

Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York

I loved the way Izzy played. When I first met him, he was a Les Paul-and-Marshall guy, just real dirty and kinda punkish. He had a great sound. Around the time we began playing together, he kinda lightened up his attack, and started going through these different phases. But he always had a great sense of rhythm. He didn’t play with any kind of real defiant prowess, but he always hit the song perfectly. And he’s a great songwriter.

Guitar World, July 2007

This paradox and shifting positions can be explained with Slash getting a deeper admiration for what Izzy brought to the table, but from a more cynical viewpoint it could also be understood in the context of Slash being more interested in a reunion of the Appetite for Destruction lineup from 2005 and onwards and hence being more gracious towards Izzy.

Slash was also not sure about joining a band with Axl again, having fought with him previously when they both played in Hollywood Rose [for more on this see later chapters].

STEVEN BARELY JOINS

According to Slash, Steven came in after Slash:

Then we needed a guy to fill in for our drummer at the time, Rob Gardner, so I called up Steven [with whom Slash had played in the band Road Crew, and which also included, briefly, McKagan]. And it just happened, you know?

Guitar World, July 2007

While Axl wanted Slash in the band, Axl was not so sure about Steven and the drummers Nicky Beat and Chain were both considered as replacements for Rob over Steven:

It wasn't an automatic deal that Steven Adler joined Guns N' Roses, merely an audition. When done, he packed his gear and split. After he hit the road, Joe [Raz' brother] set up Steven's kit again so the guys could audition a few other drummers. There was a dude, Chain, who Axl really dug and insisted on hiring. Izzy steadfastly refused to play with him, and almost quit G N' R over it. At some point, Chain told me, "I don't think Izzy liked me." I said, "It's worse than that." To keep everyone calm, some diplomatic maneuvers were employed. All agreed Steven would play the next show, but G N' R would keep searching for a drummer.

Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 210-211

After Rob Gardner was out of Guns N’ Roses and they were auditioning drummers, before they got Steven Adler, we had Nickey Beat come down. He had played in the Weirdos and a version of the Germs and stuff like that. He had these real punk-rock anarchist values without being, you know, a harmful human being. But he wasn’t right for Guns N’ Roses. But it was odd that after we played, I went outside with him into the parking lot and we’re talking and I go, “Nickey, if for some reason this doesn’t work out and I’m not in this band anymore, you’re definitely the drummer I’d like to start something with someday.” And so, lo and behold, I’m out of Guns N’ Roses and the first person I call is Nickey. And he’s like, “Yeah, yeah, sure, let’s do it.” We hung out for a couple days and then we went to see Guns N’ Roses play at this frat party at UCLA. And Mick Cripps was at this party.

Tom Beaujour and Richard Bienstock, Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion, 2021

Izzy kept suggesting Adler, but Axl was just like, “No, I don’t want to play with that guy.” Finally, Steven came down to rehearsal and it sounded great. And Axl’s like, “Okay, fine.”

Rolling Stone - Extract from "Nöthin’ but a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the ’80s Hard Rock Explosion", March 8, 2021

Although Steven's would not mention this reluctance in his biography:

[...] one night Slash called me up. He sounded excited and told me Izzy had resurfaced and wanted us all to play together again. [...] my heart really started pounding because Slash told me that they had committed to doing a show Thursday night. And Friday they were planning on heading up to Seattle to play a couple of shows. [...] The next day I got together with them, and they told me the band was now called Guns N' Roses, after the band's founders: Tracii Guns and Axl Rose.

Steven's biography, "My Appetite for Destruction", 2010, page 76-77

I guess Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner didn't want to do these shows up north. So Slash calls me and says, "We have two empty shows you want to do them? One's at the Troubadour and we're going to go up to Oregon and Seattle for the others. And I said, "Fuck yeah, of course." The two other guys didn't have it in their hearts to do it ad we did.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

Guns N' Roses in 1985; Izzy, Axl, Slash, Duff, and Steven

Steven talking about Izzy:

Izzy looked like a young Ron Wood, with that gaunt, angular cut to his face, perfectly framed by straight black hair that hugged his jawline, making his face look even more thin and elongated. He was into heroin, just like Ron Wood and Keith Richards, his heroes in The Rolling Stones (...). He had thick-soled platform shoes and always wore black pants with some sort of super-tight shirt. He looked more like his shadow than himself and to me he was the personification of cool. Izzy and I hit it off right from the start. We each saw something in the other: perhaps it was just the way we talked about music. Izzy was the consummate rhythm guitarist. I loved the solid power chords he built into Rose's songs.

"My Appetite for Destruction", 2010

THE REAL FORMATION OF THE BAND, OR THE FORMATION OF THE REAL BAND?

In an interview in 1986, the band would refer to the coming together of the Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven lineup as when Guns N' Roses was formed [Los Angeles Times, June 1986], probably to distance themselves from the short-lived earlier lineups and to create cohesion as a band of brothers: Guns N' Roses was Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven. But already in December 1986, Axl would point out that this was only one of the band's lineups: "This lineup has been together for two years" [Hit Parader, December 1986].

Still, to most fans, and likely band members, the real starting point of the band was when Slash and Steven joined, or at least it was a pivotal moment in the band's history. What happened before can almost be discarded as trivial and without any importance, although it is all connected, and one thing led invariably to the next. Without Slash and Steven joining it is highly unlikely the band would have reached the same levels as success as they did, and the music they would have created would clearly have been different. It was a watershed moment and from this point on it only went in one direction, upwards, until it started to fall spectacularly apart.

by **Soulmonster** Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:51 am

JUNE 1985

FIRST REHEARSAL WITH THE CLASSIC LINEUP

CHANGING STEVEN'S DRUM KIT

After joining the band, the rest of the guys had to change Steven's drum kit:

We really had to make a drummer out of [Steven]. We took all his drums away – he had a double-bass drum and all these fuckin’ toms – and he ended up with a kick, a snare, a floor ton, crash and ride cymbals and his hi-hats: a Ramones-style kit. The band would rehearse, then Steve and I would get together – just bass and drums – every day and work on grooves. [...] We’d put on songs like Cameo’s “Word Up,” and we’d play over it, and then we’d play it on our own, just trying to get a pocket. We played a lot of funk and R&B but hardly ever any hard rock stuff, because it was all about the groove. I’d have to lead the way with the bass, almost being percussive. But he became a unique and one-of-a-kind drummer by the time we did Appetite.

Guitar World's Bass Guitar, June 2004

The timing for me and Steven to meld as a rhythm section was perfect. Steven had tons of drive, and we kept at it hour upon hour, day after day - just mercilessly.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 84-85

One thing DID have to change for me, however, and that was Steven's double-kick drum kit with WAY too many rack-toms and cymbals. Lucky for me, when we formed GN'R a few months later, Izzy Stradlin shared my horror of this "hesher" drum kit. We started our plot to hide parts of his drum kit. Every time poor Steven would show up to band practice, his kit was progressively smaller, until he was left with only the bare essentials--what would become his signature "thing" and influence modern rock drummers a few short years later . . . a GROOVE!

Seattle Weekly, November 25, 2009

Our first rehearsal, we rented a room in Silverlake for, like, five bucks an hour. And Izzy and I took all of Steven’s drums away from him—all the rack toms and all the double bass drums. So he just had a single kick and a snare. He was like, “Where’s all my drums?” But it was literally one of those things where, from the first three chords, that A-G-D or whatever it was, it was, “Holy fuck!” We started playing and right away it had that warmth and that energy and that ferocity to it. It was like five swingin’ dicks in a room, you know?

Tom Beaujour and Richard Bienstock, Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion, 2021

NO WEAK LINK

Already at the first rehearsal sparks flew and the band members knew they were onto something great:

When this band got together, everybody felt, ‘This is the right place.’ You know how this goes. You’re in a band, and there’s always a loose link in the end. Always. Every band I’d ever been in before, there’d always be one person, or two, that wasn’t cutting it. This band, it was finally like, ‘Okay, this is it.’ You could feel it at the first rehearsal. It just felt right.

RIP Magazine, June 1988

The first time Axl ever rehearsed it with us, we were playing in this little room and he was late. We were playing Reckless Life and he fucking ran in to the room and grabbed the microphone and started screaming- really fucking screaming- and he was running literally halfway up the walls from side to side across the room. I was just kind of looking at Slash.....Hell the next morning I woke up and we had a rock 'n' roll band.

Classic Rock, July 2000

[Steven] came down and we had one day of rehearsal. It really was like a synergy. It was like we'd been playing together for years.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

The first rehearsal day that we had as the five guys was at a studio in Silverlake. Playing the first few chords was like thunder had hit the room; like lightning had hit the room. That day was probably the most important day of the five of our lives, as players and musicians. It definitely ranks up there because that's when we all knew it was solidified. This was the best band that any of us had come close to being in.

Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007

Without missing a beat [Axl] grabbed the mike in the middle of the song and just started running up and down the walls, screaming and wailing like someone had his pants on fire. I had never heard such a sound in my life. It was like some otherwordly banshee cry. I was stoked. I remember my eyes bugged a bit and my pulse shot up; I was thinking this dude was insane, so original.

"My Appetite for Destruction", 2010

[Steven and Slash] came in and, like, the first couple of chords that... you know, the five of us in the same room, it was like lightning really struck.

A&E Biography, November 29, 2007

I don’t know if we were good but there was a feel that was definitely there. That’s what we went after. I don’t know if we were good technically at all. I don’t know if we ever got good technically but we always had a feel.

Ultimate Guitar, April 18, 2011

It was magic from the first day. The first song we played in rehearsal was ‘Shadow Of Your Love’ and Axl showed up late. We were playing the song and right in the middle of the song Axl showed up and he grabbed the microphone and was running up and down the walls screaming. I thought, ‘This is the greatest thing ever.’ We knew right then what we had.

MusicRadar, June 18, 2012

by **Soulmonster** Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:55 am

JUNE 6, 1985; THE TROUBADOUR

THE FIRST SHOW WITH THE CLASSIC LINEUP

The new lineup played its first show at The Troubadour on June 6, 1985, only a few days after Slash and Steven had joined the band. The two other bands playing this evening were The Mistreater and Fine Line with Guns N' Roses opening for one of the other bands.

Advertisement in L.A. Weekly, who still hadn't figured out how to spell the band's name:

Ad in L.A. Weekly, May 31, 1985

This show is the first Guns N' Roses show for which we know the entire setlist: Reckless Life, Shadow of Your Love, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Think About You, Move to the City, Don't Cry, Nice Boys, Back Off Bitch, Anything Goes and Heartbreak Hotel. Of course, all of these songs were either covers or original songs written before Slash and Steven joined the band, but the new guys immediately put their stamp on the songs, especially Slash's emotive leads.

On stage at the Troubadour, June 6, 1985
Picture by Marc Canter

We played our first show at the Troubadour and it was sold-out. It was like we were rock stars, but just in Hollywood.

The Days of Wine and Roses, Classic Rock, April 2005

On Thursday, June 6, we played our first live show with the Appetite for Destruction lineup. The bill at the Troubadour included Fineline, Mistreater, and, at the very bottom, Guns N' Roses. Slash's high school friend Marc Canter, - he turned out to be part of the family that ran Canter's Deli - came and shot pictures. He made prints of each of us the next day so we'd have head shots to put up in the places we played on our tour [the Hell Tour]. That was Friday.

Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 70

We had a show together, I think it was at the Troubadour, [...] the audience comprised of a bunch of our friends.

Ultimate Classic Rock, September 2014

I do remember seeing their first show at the Troubadour on June 6, 1985 and knowing that I was witnessing something very special. I knew right there if they could stay together long enough that they would get signed and at least have a gold record.

Metal Sucks, February 21, 2008

It was a really good gig, because now you’ve got the Appetite for Destruction lineup, and Steven’s missing the double bass drum, so you can hear the vocals and the three ranges of Axl’s voice, and everything’s slower, not double time. And they’re playing things like “Don’t Cry” and Slash is whipping out this guitar solo that’s the same one you hear on the record. I think I shot four rolls of film that night. Because everywhere I pointed the camera I was shooting rock stars.

Tom Beaujour and Richard Bienstock, Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion, 2021

[...] when I got to that first gig at the Troubadour with the Appetite lineup it was clear right away that something was totally different and better. They had gotten rid of Steven’s double bass drum, they either hid it or threw it out and he had no CHOICE but to go single bass. I was at the gig taking pictures and it was a revelation and all of a sudden I noticed you could actually hear Axl without the double bass and everything was slower and had a swing or groove to it with Steven being forced into that style. They had written “Move To the City”, “Don’t Cry” and “Think About You” and they were great.

Legendary Rock Interviews, April 22, 2012

So it's June 6th, 1985, at the Troubadour. Slash and Steven joined the band 4 or 5 days before that. The feeling I was getting, watching and taking pictures of this is, "Wow!" Wherever I pointed to there was something to grab. I was going through my film like toilet paper. My heart was pumping because everything sounded so cool, so good and they sound like they've been playing together for like months and yet they've only been together four or five days. I knew that all they gotta do is stay together and not die or go to jail and they're gonna make it.

Uproxx, April 2015

On stage at the Troubadour, June 6, 1985
Picture by Marc Canter

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